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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Bike sat for a week on center stand after trip to CA. Started it up, to warm up for oil change, loud clattering sound from engine area. Stopped engine to make sure it was not hanging in a gear.
Tried again. Would not start. Kind of firing on one cylinder. Turned off key and on again retried.
Engine started with noises (2 or 3 seconds) like it had no oil or oil drained down. Lot of valve gear noise. Then a huge tick from a valve. Gawd so that is what it sounds like!
After 30 seconds engine ran like a sewing machine with no noise other than a purr.
Any ideas?
 

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Some possibilities:

> low oil level
> oil starvation
oil too thick for ambient temps
> pump not pumping, temp clogged galley
> oil filter too dirty
> noise is actually from injectors, not valve train
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
st ryder said:
Some possibilities:

> low oil level
> oil starvation
oil too thick for ambient temps
> pump not pumping, temp clogged galley
> oil filter too dirty
> noise is actually from injectors, not valve train
All great points. Oil level full with 5w-40 Shell Rotella Synthetic T. 4000 miles on it and Yamaha oil filter which I will open up today. Temp in 50F range.
Could be from injectors. Wonder why.
I thought that maybe gas leaked through injectors into sump as oil level seemed to be a tad higher. IE one week before level almost to top of site glass. When noise occurred sight glass full.

I have used this particular Shell oil when i could get it. Other oil used yam 20 40.

Changed filter and refilled with Yam oil. See if it makes any difference.
 

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WOW!

Can't believe someone else has experienced this. Bike sat for about one week over the Christmas holiday while visiting family. Got back yesterday and when I started her up there was the most awful clattering sound. I quickly turn it off to remove my helmet to hear better and check the oil level, which was where it should be. Fired it up again and the clattering continued all the time getting quieter and quieter until after about 8 to 10 seconds all that was left was a light clicking sound that eventually ceased after the engine began warming up and was totally gone by the time the first temp bar illuminated. I seldom park the bike on the center stand for any length of time, but for some reason I did this time. I think before this incidence, the longest the bike has not been run has been 2 days since I bought it 2-1/2 years ago. It's an 04. It now has 52,300 miles on it.

Like Tripletango, it sounded like an engine with worn hydraulic valve lifters that are real noisy until the oil pressure has a chance to pump them up. And it sounded like it was coming from the top of the engine as opposed to low in the bottom end. I don't recall if I fully let the self diagnosis process complete before I thumbed the starter and so maybe the fuel pump had not pumped up to pressure yet. I'm guessing that what I heard was injector related but can't be sure. Another symptom that may or may not be related is that of a little rough running and stumbling on a dead cold engine along with about a 25 -30 mile drop in miles per fill up which translates to about 5 mpg less mileage. All of this over the past cold snap here in the PNW where the morning temps were in the upper 20s to low 30s. The roughness and stumbling only lasted a minute or so, so I didn't pay much attention to it except to let the engine warm up longer than I normally do before riding off. And I attributed the lower mileage to that fact that since I was using heated clothing, I kept the RPMs up higher than I otherwise would have to help with keeping the battery charged. Maybe the two sympoms are related, maybe not.

I am just about to do my second valve adjustment check which I did myself at the 26,000 mile mark. But know I'm thinking I should let the dealer take a look at this issue before I complicate things with additional variables since so much of the fuel/injection system has to come off to check and service the valves.

If anyone has any thoughts on this or even confirm that injectors can indeed cause this much noise, I'd be most appreciative. And do you thing leaving it on the center stand as opposed to the side stand has any bearing on it?
 

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Buggered if I would leave mine on side stand all that time. They ain't the strongest looking side stands. What is it , dry weight of half a ton!
Have some owners not reported problems with side stands in the past?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I am thinking along injector lines as well. A possibility - steel tank large swings in temperature. Maybe some water from condensation in the fuel? When on the center stand for a while the condensate can migrate to the fuel pick up point. I don't think that will happen it when on the side stand. I know when the fuel is very low the bike will not start when it is on the side stand. Meaning the fuel pick up is sucking air. So water will be in the side of the tank.
Also been reading posts regarding rust in fuel and filters.
I looked at the oil - it is dark but clean. Tore apart the Yamaha oil filter - dark from oil passage and definitely not blocked.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
alman said:
Buggered if I would leave mine on side stand all that time. They ain't the strongest looking side stands. What is it , dry weight of half a ton!
Have some owners not reported problems with side stands in the past?
Yeh kind of looks a little weak but had no problems with mine at all.
 

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You may be causing the problem by leaving it on the side stand. It's only a thought, I'm no expert.
But when I first had mine, I parked on a slope for about 3 hours. Got on it to go home. Mile up road and the oil light came on. Stoped , checked etc , level fine. It's only a thought.
It was discussed on old thread at time. Not sure if you could find it again now.
Thinking back too , I belive the trouble was with the main stand braking , couple owners had problems.
 

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I *always* use the centre stand if I own a bike that has one. I rarely leave it on the side stand, as it's not as secure re rolling'tipping, and because of the disparity in fluid levels from low side to high side when on the side stand. I never start any bike it or let it run on the side stand for the same reasons. I've heard about centre stand failures on a different bikes, and so far have been lucky I guess and have had none. When I roll the bike off the centre stand while straddling it, I use my left foot and impeded the centre stand's snap up and use the frt brake to slow things down, as I feel it helps avoid any fractures/cracks in the centre stand which could be caused by it banging against its stop. Plus, I think any bike looks far better on the centre stand when parked.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
alman said:
[email protected]
You may be causing the problem by leaving it on the side stand. It's only a thought, I'm no expert.
But when I first had mine, I parked on a slope for about 3 hours. Got on it to go home. Mile up road and the oil light came on. Stoped , checked etc , level fine. It's only a thought.
It was discussed on old thread at time. Not sure if you could find it again now.
Thinking back too , I belive the trouble was with the main stand braking , couple owners had problems.
Problem occurs only when bike is on center stand. I only put it on center stand for extended storage. it is a pain in the ass to get it on the center stand so overnight in garage it will be on side stand. When I have left it on side stand for longer periods no problems occur other than it will not start if fuel is very very low.
 

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Yes, it's when the bike is left on the CENTER stand that the condition seems to occur. I'm not concerned about the side stand breaking and that's where I leave it 99% or the time. I've not heard of any side stand breakage problems. It's a forged steel arm that appears plenty strong to me. But there have been previous reports of center stand failures. Anyway, relative strength of the stands is not the issue.

However, whether it's on the center stand and therefore totally vertical but tipped forward a few degrees or on the side stand and leaning to the left but level front and back DOES seem to be the issue.

After starting it for the first time in a week while on the center stand and hearing all the noise which ceased within a short period of time, I rode the bike for about a half hour and then let it sit, again on the center stand for 24 hours. When I started it again, there was some noise for a few seconds, but nowhere near the amount or duration as after sitting for a week. I took it to my local dealer and spoke with the service advisor whom I trust pretty well. His opinion was that because of the location of the drain holes in the cylinder head that on the center stand more oil had drained out of the head and back down to the crankcase and that after a week it simply took that long for the oil to reach the camshaft. He also thought that the fact that I was still running 20-50 oil might have contributed to the condition as; being thicker it might take longer to reach the cam. I'm not sure I agree with that as the bike is kept in an attached garage and though it is not heated, I doubt it gets much below 45 degrees even when the outside temp reaches down into the upper 20s.

The last two nights I've left the bike on the SIDE stand and there has been NO unusual noise when starting it up after sitting for 24 hours. Consequentially I'm going ahead with the valve check as soon as the new valve cover gasket arrives in a week. I'll also change the oil and filter at that time and put in 10-40 weight oil Amsoil which I've used from about 8K miles to the present 52K except that it's been 20-50 weight, changing at the recommended 4K intervals.
 

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tripletango said:
FJR's aren't that dumb
Yep, like Star Jones, it looks in the mirror and sees 100 pounds of ugly fat... and KNOWS it's not a Ducati! ;)

(just kidding, George, put down the pitchfork)

:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
He also thought that the fact that I was still running 20-50 oil might have contributed to the condition as; being thicker it might take longer to reach the cam. I'm not sure I agree with that as the bike is kept in an attached garage and though it is not heated, I doubt it gets much below 45 degrees even when the outside temp reaches down into the upper 20s.

The last two nights I've left the bike on the SIDE stand and there has been NO unusual noise when starting it up after sitting for 24 hours. Consequentially I'm going ahead with the valve check as soon as the new valve cover gasket arrives in a week. I'll also change the oil and filter at that time and put in 10-40 weight oil Amsoil which I've used from about 8K miles to the present 52K except that it's been 20-50 weight, changing at the recommended 4K intervals.[/quote]

Not the oil as I used 5W 40 Shell Rotella Synthetic T with Yamaha filter. On changing oil at 4000 miles after problem oil looked fine no obvious bits. The filter was dark but certainly did not appear to be plugged.
I refilled with 20w40 yamalube to see if it makes a difference.
Here is a url for a similar diuscussion I started on the US forum if you are interested

http://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=4271&st=0&#entry53600
 

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I find this an interesting discussion as I store my bikes for up to six months at a time, on the center stand, this included an FJR at one time, and can't say that any bike I've stored and started up made excessive valve noise at all let alone noise attributable to it sitting on the center stand as oppossed to the side stand. :?

Sorry guys, but I don't follow the logic. Sure, the left side lifters/lobes/etc *may* stay better oiled if on the side stand, but at the expense of the right side being fully drained. On the centre stand, though according to the mechanic more oil *may* flow back down, it will remain the same level across the cams etc, and not leave one side dry since it won't be fighting gravity's pull as much, ie no lean angle.

I suggest there may be more going on here than which stand you park the bike on, but that's just my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
st ryder said:
I find this an interesting discussion as I store my bikes for up to six months at a time, on the center stand, this included an FJR at one time, and can't say that any bike I've stored and started up made excessive valve noise at all let alone noise attributable to it sitting on the center stand as oppossed to the side stand. :?

Sorry guys, but I don't follow the logic. Sure, the left side lifters/lobes/etc *may* stay better oiled if on the side stand, but at the expense of the right side being fully drained. On the centre stand, though according to the mechanic more oil *may* flow back down, it will remain the same level across the cams etc, and not leave one side dry since it won't be fighting gravity's pull as much, ie no lean angle.

I suggest there may be more going on here than which stand you park the bike on, but that's just my opinion.
Too true, got a real need to know!
 

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As a wet sump engine with more than adequate reserves over the pump pickup point, I would think that the noise is an oil availability / clearance issue for the cam / valve assembly. It would be a significant and unlikely engineering error if it were possible for the pickup side of the oil pump to be draining and "cavitating" briefly at startup.

Is it possible that there is an oil "catch point" (hollow shafts or galleries) that retains a little oil when the bike is left on the side stand. This retained oil could be enough to provide the valve / cam assembly with clearance filling oil until the fresh supply is available.

Cheers
Lenz
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
lenz said:
As a wet sump engine with more than adequate reserves over the pump pickup point, I would think that the noise is an oil availability / clearance issue for the cam / valve assembly. It would be a significant and unlikely engineering error if it were possible for the pickup side of the oil pump to be draining and "cavitating" briefly at startup.

Is it possible that there is an oil "catch point" (hollow shafts or galleries) that retains a little oil when the bike is left on the side stand. This retained oil could be enough to provide the valve / cam assembly with clearance filling oil until the fresh supply is available.

Cheers
Lenz
All very possible but wonder why is it so sporadic and apparently limited to so very few bikes.
 

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it is a pain in the ass to get it on the center stand
Why for some does putting the Bike on main stand still seem to be a problem.
If you are having problems, method and advice have been well documented in past.
It's not a strength issue.
 
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