[N4HHE]

I used Motul 7000 a coupla times. Expensive but I was leaving it in the bike for a longer than normal trip. Ester added, and that perty red dye. Is not ester synthetic, and wouldn't it be reasonable to assume the oil makers have to have some content of synthetic esters. If it says synthetic on the label, have we been lied to all these years?

Historically boutique motorcycle oils have been weak in detergent for expecting short oil drain intervals. Lack of detergent keeps the oil prettier, longer, in the engine. Many have been aghast at how black Rotella-T turns almost immediately after using exotic boutique motorcycle oils. Rotella was only cleaning up the junk the others left behind. The multiuse diesel/gasoline Rotella-T has lots of detergent for black diesel soot.

I use Amzoil synthetic a lot..... what have I been paying for? Who makes Amzoil's oil anyway?

Amsoil is one of the 3 or 4 who make synthetic base oil. Mobil, Total, probably Shell, one of the Swedish companies, and Amsoil. Possibly Bel-Ray and other little guys. Not Castrol who has always been a blender not a refiner or manufacturer.

Sadly, Amsoil really does make exceptional motor oil but is sullied by Amway-derived marketing.

Marketeers control the US Department of Commerce and the same in every other country. You might note how direct comparison of motor oil products is forbidden in advertising. Years ago some barely got around this by claiming "Motor oil C did this, and motor oil P did that!" thinly disguising the manufacturers. Manufacturers can only claim to "meet or exceed" industry specifications. Can not directly claim their product is better than another. Marketing works very hard to make the consumer's imagination believe things that were not really said.

Amsoil's heavily marketed failure "Lifetime Oil Change" of about 30 years ago used a no-detergent oil which always stayed pretty honey colored in the mistaken belief an exotic oil filter would capture all the crud. Didn't work. The oil stayed in spec as claimed but the engines sludged to the point of failure. "Dirty" motor oil is good. It means the crud is coming out with the drain and not staying inside the engine. Motor oil does not make the discoloration, it collects it from combustion blowby.

 

[JohnC]

Yamaha must build a pretty tight engine then. After 4 to 6 thousand miles, the Rotella T6 looks bout like it did when I poured it in. The final drive oil on the other hand . . .

Might as well argue which color FJR is the fastest, there is no performance standard required of a motorcycle to be blue, or red, or yellow.

No argument. Red is the fastest color. The polymers in red dye give the paint a slightly lower drag coefficient than the other colors. Why do you think so many Ducatis are red?

Read it on the internet. OTOH, I also read on the internet that the Earth is flat.

 

[Donk]

You see my illogic works. @N4HHE says AMSOIL is an exceptional oil. I don't believe he has ever said anything positive about another oil synthetic or dino. He only says synthetic may or may not really be synthetic which by the way is correct. Everyone has an argument why their choice of oil is best based on something that has to do with bikes. I switched from Yamalube to Amsoil because it's headquarters are in Superior WI. I like Wisconsin lots of good things come from Wisconsin such as beer, cheese, The Packers, and my wife. So the heck with putting Yamalube in the Ducati. I'm going to buy another Yamaha to use it in. It will be cheaper in the long run. In the meantime I'm going to change my oil using Amsoil, have a beer and some cheese curds, watch reruns of the Packers wearing a Farve shirt, and kiss my wife who puts up with my motorcycle passion, obsession, insanity whatever it is. All after I meet a friend for a morning ride. Life's good, be happy😊

Just because I can't leave well enough alone does anyone know for sure who makes Yamalube? I have heard/been led to believe that Yamaha has their own lab and it is somehow affiliated with Petronas.

 

[Mr_Ed]

I used Motul 7000 a coupla times. Expensive but I was leaving it in the bike for a longer than normal trip. Ester added, and that perty red dye. Is not ester synthetic, and wouldn't it be reasonable to assume the oil makers have to have some content of synthetic esters. If it says synthetic on the label, have we been lied to all these years?

I use Amzoil synthetic a lot..... what have I been paying for? Who makes Amzoil's oil anyway?

So many questions, so few answers and zero qualified experts in any oil thread and absolutely there's a bunch of marketing-speak in the industry.

I've been under the impression that Amsoil makes Amsoil's oil.

I do use Amsoil, but I started primarily because a friend became a dealer, and I wanted to help. I have continued because it's so danged convenient; I can place an order today and have it tomorrow freight free.

My preferred customer membership is due in October, and I'm giving some serious thought to stopping it and just going to any of the other quality products, but I've just gotten so used to just logging on and ordering exactly what I need on my doorstep the next day.

 

[RaYzerman]

Well, let's just say we don't see FJRs wearing out any sooner or later no matter what oil they were using, or at least we can't prove it without a whole lot more data. If the lubrication properties are there, it will work. We change the oil in our bikes more frequently than we really need to, the oil doesn't wear out. The dirt is all filtered smaller than can harm the engine.... how many change their filter every other oil change? Not that many I'd guess.

We've seen guys using car oils in bikes and the cry about ruining your clutch comes up. How many ruined clutches have actually been the case? I'd still use M/C oil though, just me. I may falsely believe they are formulated not to break down as fast while being chewed up by the transmission.

As for those who change final drive oil every oil change, it's totally not necessary... you don't do that in your car do you? Same stuff. Once a year plenty.
So, I think today, I'm not going to participate in any more oil threads, not that I don't like a good intelligent debate. We should take a lesson from the V-STrom forum... "There will be one and one only oil thread (it is huge), and all others will be deleted".

 

[passx]

There are no contractual differences. There is nothing binding the manufacturer to offer a superior product with the "synthetic" label. There is nothing a "synthetic" motor oil has to prove other than greater-than-refined effort was made during manufacture. There is no requirement for a superior result. This is what I have been saying when I say, "There are no performance standards an oil must meet to be sold as synthetic." Might as well argue which color FJR is the fastest, there is no performance standard required of a motorcycle to be blue, or red, or yellow.

Synthetic manufacturing processes can make a superior motor oil but use of synthetic processes is no assurance of a superior product.

"I use full syn! (sic) Only the best for my engine!" is a statement of ignorance. Is stating willingness to throw money at the problem but no assurance of getting superior product.

So, I take that you've tested different synthetics vs conventional oils in a controlled lab environment for temperature & wear compliance's and after testing it from -40 to +300f you've analyzed it for content and how well it held up ?

 

[jjscsix]

Yes. Because they can not demonstrate any requirement of performance for being synthetic. For example Ford WSS-M2C946-B1 is a very specific document of performance tests. Doesn't say how the oil must be made only what the oil must do. Not all Mobil-1 meets this spec yet every time Ford mentions this spec they suggest one use Ford Motorcraft Semi-synthetic.

"Synthetic" has no definition other than how an oil is made. That is the result of Mobil-1 vs Castrol. The case was "held" in private court of binding arbitration before the National Advertising Division of the Better Business Bureau.

Thanks for your insight.

 

[Gitbox]

Here's a snippet I thought was interesting on MachineryLubrication.com: https://www.machinerylubrication.com/synthetic-oil-31800

"There have been numerous studies over the years comparing synthetic oil to conventional mineral oil. Most notably the American Automobile Association (AAA) used certified labs using American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) standardized test methods to examine differences in engine oils marketed as conventional versus those marketed as full synthetic.

Among other things, AAA found that, on average, synthetic oils outperformed conventional oils by 47 percent in the conducted tests. The selected tests evaluated several important physical, chemical and performance properties including shear stability, deposit formation, volatility, cold-temperature pumpability, oxidation resistance, and oxidation-induced rheological (viscosity) changes."

One thing is certain, if the word "oil" is in the thread title, there will be multiple pages of responses. :grin2:

 

[Rumblestrip]

... "There will be one and one only oil thread (it is huge), and all others will be deleted".

I second that motion..... make it so !!!

 

[bounce]

Amsoil's heavily marketed failure "Lifetime Oil Change" of about 30 years ago used a no-detergent oil which always stayed pretty honey colored in the mistaken belief an exotic oil filter would capture all the crud. Didn't work. The oil stayed in spec as claimed but the engines sludged to the point of failure. "Dirty" motor oil is good. It means the crud is coming out with the drain and not staying inside the engine. Motor oil does not make the discoloration, it collects it from combustion blowby.

Sure sounds like my early 70s learning curve with Penzoil. Slugiest engines EVAAAAH!

 

[JohnC]

So, I think today, I'm not going to participate in any more oil threads, not that I don't like a good intelligent debate.

I keep saying the same thing, yet here I am.

Here's a snippet I thought was interesting on MachineryLubrication.com: https://www.machinerylubrication.com/synthetic-oil-31800

Read it. The article seems to be long on pro-synthetics and short on practical science. OTOH, I suspect most of us, as long as we stick to the MamaYama recommended oil change intervals, could use the cheapest appropriate Wally World multigrade oil and a Fram oil filter and our bikes would never notice the difference. I say "most" because some of us (not I) do a fair amount of riding in really cold (for motorcycles) weather. The superior cold weather flow characteristics might make a difference.

 

[KilgoreTrout]

All I know is that chicks dig a rotella man.
I get way more tail than my buddy Mark who swears by DELO.
The guy just doesn't get it.

 

[N4HHE]

So, I take that you've tested different synthetics vs conventional oils in a controlled lab environment for temperature & wear compliance's and after testing it from -40 to +300f you've analyzed it for content and how well it held up ?

Show me where a synthetic motor oil is contractually or legally bound to have superior properties? Or any properties (because it is synthetic) for that matter?I

You might buy Mobil-1, Amsoil, Motul, etc, because you find superior service over other oils. But whatever you buy is not contractually obliged to be even the same thing you bought before. Your only recourse is to buy something else next time.

 

[N4HHE]

Sure sounds like my early 70s learning curve with Penzoil. Slugiest engines EVAAAAH!

In 1970s it was widely believed that a high paraffin oil such as that which came from the Pennsylvania region was the best motor oil available. That anything made of Middle East oil was inferior.

Today, paraffins are considered a defect. Contributes to sludging.

 

[RaYzerman]

I second that motion..... make it so !!!

I'm not participating, remember? All I can say is if I were CEO, things would be different, LOL.

 

[KilgoreTrout]

You guys are crazy. I love a good oil thread.

 

[Donk]

Show me where a synthetic motor oil is contractually or legally bound to have superior properties? Or any properties (because it is synthetic) for that matter?I

You might buy Mobil-1, Amsoil, Motul, etc, because you find superior service over other oils. But whatever you buy is not contractually obliged to be even the same thing you bought before. Your only recourse is to buy something else next time.[/QUOTE

Beating a dead horse I'd say.

 

[Gitbox]

short on practical science

Here you go: https://www.ilma.org/PDF/ILMANews/2017/AAAreport.pdf

and who doesn't like beating a dead horse. :grin2:

 

[bounce]

In 1970s it was widely believed that a high paraffin oil such as that which came from the Pennsylvania region was the best motor oil available. That anything made of Middle East oil was inferior.

Today, paraffins are considered a defect. Contributes to sludging.

I'll add that to my experience too. I attributed it to higher ash content but paraffin AND ash would certainly seem to be a more complete answer.

 

[JohnC]

Beating a dead horse I'd say.

Who knows? If you beat that critter long enough, hard enough, it may get up and run. But I doubt it.

OTOH, hope springs eternal . . .