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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I routinely drive past those radar speed signs in 3 different areas around town. In all my cars, and also on my Road King and the Guzzi V11, they hit me at a fair distance and seem fairly accurate. Now, when I'm on the FJR they either stay on 00 or they respond so late that the numbers do not fully display and go back to zeros. I can see the sign just start to display and then it goes back to zeros. Honest officer, I'm not speeding, but I am curious.

Is it this stealthy new body work? Am I truly invisible???

Anybody else notice this?
 

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Radar

You are not invisible, but your radar cross section might be low enough in the FJR to be below the sensitivity setting on the radar unit. There are many factors affecting the unit's ability to "see" you, but plastic and fiberglass have no measurable impact.
 

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Hardly invisible....95 in a 65 coming through rural Georgia a couple years ago made it clear the FJR is a decent target for a hand held laser. BTW no matter what you are told to the contrary, the BEST detectors out there (I use a Valentine 1 and a Beltronics) are no defense for a laser. $212 in Pickens County Georgia (Jasper) 2 weeks ago reconfirmed that. :x
All the laser alert does is to let you know it's BOHICA time
 

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For radar, yes it probable does go through the body work but the radiator and engine are going to give a good return signal

Laser, with the headlight reflectors on this puppy you don't stand a chance.
Chris
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I was sort of playing ... basic physics in college taught me enough to know I'm not really invisible. BUT, it IS interesting that I have such a lower signal on the FJR than on the other bikes. I'm certain hand-held instant-on laser will get us every time.

Man, it's gonna be hard to temper that throttle hand!
 

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As it was explained to me:

The software in most guns requires X confirmation "pings" before it gets a "lock" and reports the results to the display. Within the paramaters of the confirmation was coded in what is considered a "reasonable variance" from the last ping. If "Ping 1" and "Ping 2" (one red and one blue) are far enough apart from each other, the software will consider it an invalid sample and not "lock" (or display depending on the gun's design).

What does that mean in the real world? If you are accelerating or decelerating quickly enough, each ping will be outside the "acceptable" tollerance and the gun won't get a lock. WEEEE!

I tested this (after it was explained to me) on one of those road side trailers. I could ease up on the display until it locked in on me. If I nailed the throttle, the display froze (at, say, 20mph) until I let off the throttle. The display would then jump from 20 to 80 in an instant (the software got enough sequential confirming "pings" to "lock").

Decel was more difficult as you are at the ragged edge of traction when slowing quickly enough to avoid a lock. It can be done, but not nearly as easily.

I have heard that the trailer-based systems are "old tech" and may be easier to fool than what is installed with patrolmen.
 

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You are right...the speed trailers use mostly old, played out K band units. Around here some supermarket doors are using K band so it isn't exactly state of the art...but it is still in use. Ka band is much more prevalent; it is still a popular weapon in most police traffic arsenals. Ka can get you coming and/or going...the officer too can be approaching you from front, rear, or just standing still. Ka is fairly easy to pick up from about a mile or so out. Laser is the work of the devil. It has a range of only about 900-1,000 feet and can only be used in a stationary mode. But once it pops you....bring out the license and checkbook. Nasty stuff this laser is...nasty. :(
 

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Laser Speed Measurement

If you are asking about the logic process for a police laser, it's basically a laser range finder with microprocessing that computes how much the distance to an object (your vehicle) is changing in a set period of time (milliseconds), which gives your speed. The officer just aims at a nice surface (like your license plate or bumper), shoots the laser and voila, near instantaneous speed measurement.

I don't think there is much chance of any vehicle being able to slow quickly enough to beat the laser.
 

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Sorry, I was asking about the Ka logic. The reply about the radar "trailers" was that they tend to be K band and that Ka and wide-band radar guns were "smarter" or "improved".

LASER depends on you getting some reflection from someone else being pinged. I have been saved in the past, but the real protection is from the rabbit you have leading you through the wolf packs. I suspect the software logic is all pretty close but that the LASER is more focused and the pings closer together.

Although I have heard that sometimes headlight modulators might have an influence on how long it takes LASER to get a lock.

So, 3 questions.

Is the logic of Ka and other styles of radar similar to those that I have personally tested in radar trailers?

Are the "lock" rules similar in the real world?

Can a LASER lock be dicked with (even partially) with a modulator?

Those who are adamant that detectors are useless against LASER may take a seat on this one, since I have had personal experience where I have been helped. The situations have to be right, but a proper detector can help. If it helps even once, then the detector has paid for itself.
 

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Right on, Bounce! I'm in the "saved from laser by a detector" club, too. The cop nailed me with laser at 10 over, but when he shot me a second time 5 sec. later, I was under the speed limit. That got me a warning instead of a ticket. He even knew I had a laser detector and he still didn't give me a ticket. More than one myth busted there, eh?

Acme, did you really think ANY detector would save you from a ticket when doing 95 in a 65? Simple X band would have got you a ticket too if waited until he saw you before turning it on. In fact, the cop could have issued you a ticket based on his estimation of your speed if he can show in court that he has been trained to do so with a reasonable amount of accuracy. And in rural Georgia, it probably takes a lot less.

Since the cop has to be stationary to use laser and you were traveling at a speed in excess of 1.5 miles per minute, you may have stood a better chance of avoiding the ticket by staying on the throttle and finding a hiding place somewhere over the next hill. :shock:

I prefer to keep my speed in a managable range just in case I'm being "watched". And if I get pulled over anyway, I hope the officer is either in a generous mood or will take pity on a gray-haired old fart trying to hold onto a shred of his youth in his declining years.

There's more to avoiding tickets than just buying a radar detector; that is just one part of an effective strategy. 8)
 

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Laser Jammers

Okay I did a lot of reading on this subject a while back. Dreaming of somehow making the FJR invisible. This site is a good one..

http://www.radarbusters.com/default.asp

They run tests and try to "beat" the lasers and radar. Lasers are tricky and while you cant be completely invisible there are products that get you pretty close. Laser Jammers are effective as well as a clear coat called VEIL that helps stop the IR beam from getting a good reflection. Anyway its really interesting and they have a lot of video and info on it. I've been trying to decide if its worth it.
 

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Acmemfg said:
Laser is the work of the devil. It has a range of only about 900-1,000 feet and can only be used in a stationary mode.
If you're paying any sort of attention, that's really not much range. Seems like you could see him before he could nail you. In any case, if you are 10+ mph over a lot of the time, you WILL eventually get a ticket, damnit, regardless of countermeasures.
 

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A good radar detector and most importantly, knowing how to use it has in fact kept me from meeting a number of traffic officers. Here's how:

1. Radar can be detected from a goodly distance away. Much further than where the officer can really see what it is you are doing and before it can get a lock on you. Ka range might be about 900-1,000 feet. My Valentine will pick up a Ka radar gun being operated from over 3/4 of a mile away giving me fair heads up something is afoul...warning distance is considerably farther with K band and ridiculously more so with X band, giving me ample opportunity to know a bank or supermarket is nearby :roll:

2. Doppler effect radar (K, Ka, and X bands) all work the same. They all pick up whatever is first in itsline of fire. Ergo, I strive to keep some other sort of vehicle in front of me when at all possible; "Feeding the bears" we used to call this technique. If radar is activated, it HAS to get what's up front; I hear the alert and it now is giving me yet more time to hit the binders.

3. Not riding like a fool with a case of recto-cranial insertion always helps. Running at sublight speeds on desolate highways in the middle of the night is asking to meet up with the local constabulary. Trying to save the WFO stuff for when one can pay attention to suspicious automobile-looking silouettes alongside the road up ahead also can keep your license in your wallet...basic common sense applies here.

Bottom line...using all your senses and road-hip instincts do a lot of the ticket avoidance. Paying close attention to what a quality radar detector is telling you (because you took the time to study its messages, not just go plug it in and run) helps immensely. Be warned though..it is NOT a magic talisman. Instant on with you as the focal point is a bad scene. Laser is nigh on impossible to beat. Occasionally you might get lucky, but don't bet on it. :(

..and yes Mike Valentine's handiwork had kept me out of a jam at more than 30 mph over on numerous occasions. Quite possibly the best accessory I have hung on the bike. :wink:
 
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