[Warchild]

Over on FJRForum.com, there has been some interesting possible developments regarding the FJR's rather lame electrical system.

Forum member Rick Conn has come across another FJR owner who owns an Electrical shop in southern Califiornia.

The owner has appearently done some extensive R&D on the FJR's charging system. The owner states that the FJR's alternator only puts out an actual 405-watts at 4000 RPM.

He also states he has developed a new stator that bench-tests a true 520-watts at the same engine speed.

A prototype is being sent to me today. I should have it by early next week. I will install it and you can best believe I will put it through the wringer.

If I can replicate in the real world what the owner is saying he sees on his test equipment, then this may indeed be the stator panacea many of us have been looking for. It would roughly be 100-ish watts of available power above what we currently see right now.

This would do the job... it means the end of the only real problem area on the bike for us Endurance Riders. And for everyone else who loads up the bike with 2-up electrical gear, aux lights, etc.

So... we shall see.

BTW.... kudos to Rick Conn for this find. I dunno if Rick is attending WFO-5, but if he does, we'll all have to buy him a beer.

 

[Thommo]

Mate, PLEASE keep us posted on what you find!! and if it is true then put me down for one!
and if Rick comes over in my neck of the woods, well the pub is staggering distance from my front gate.

 

[alan sh]

If you are putting out and using that extra power, do you need a beefier rectifier to cope?

 

[Warchild]

According to the testing conducted by the engineer designing this stator (himself a FJR owner, using his own 2005 as the test mule), the FJR can handle a true 520-watts before you start to overtax the system. Above that rating, yes, you would have to replace the germane components, wires harnesses, etc to handle the load.

According to his bench-testing, the max output of the stock alternator is no where near 490-watts... his testing shows the max output to be 405-watts at 6000+ RPM.

Below is a graph his test equipment spit out to compare the stock alternator (Line 19) with this new Electrosport ESG130 stator (Line 20):

I note with extreme interest the graph differential in the range that I ususally cruise the Desert West at (generally 4500-5000 RPM). This chart indicates I should see an additional 100-110-ish watts above that I currently see. This is going to make a huge, HUGE difference while night-riding in some of the Endurance Rallies I participate in.

 

[Tom of VA]

Do you know if the lower watts at idol have any effect on things? Will you need to cut off aux items at a stop?

 

[Warchild]

Do you know if the lower watts at idol have any effect on things? Will you need to cut off aux items at a stop?

Well, if you're going to spend any significant time at idle (a big traffic jam, a super-long wait at a draw-bridge or railroad crossing, etc), it's probably a good idea to shut down unnecessary accessories, even with the stock stator.

 

[MrWizard]

The FJR's alternator output was one of my concerns when I chose to order the 2006 last Dec. Was hopeing to see an improvement on the '06 units but if not I'm glad to see someone is addressing the issue.
Very interested in your tests of the ElectroSport stator.
Rob

 

[Warchild]

Well, here's an update for those of you interested:

Linky: ==> Testing of the ElectroSport ESG130 stator on the FJR

 

[FJRscorpion]

I read somewhere that one of the auto manufacturers, (I think Honda), has introduces square wired hybrid motors windings. This supposedly allows more windings in the same space which in turn delivers more power. It would seem to me that the same technology could be applied to the stator's windings. :|

 

[lenz]

I read somewhere that one of the auto manufacturers, (I think Honda), has introduces square wired hybrid motors windings. This supposedly allows more windings in the same space which in turn delivers more power. It would seem to me that the same technology could be applied to the stator's windings. :|

During the 70's I got some experience in the basics as an electrical fitter / mechanic with a company that repaired and rewound electric motors from washing machine size through to heavy industrial multi phase. The only time we used square section "wire" to rewind blown out field coils was on really big motors - big enough to be able to physically kneel upright inside the motor without rotor. It was difficult even with larger 3-4mm square section of the wire to match sides of the square section together in the coils.

My point is that just looking at the windings on the upgrade stator they have been hand wound because of the slight variability between them - thats fine they'll work perfectly. From my ancient experience and without having a clue what manufacturing resources are now available I would think a very precise machine wound coil would be needed to ensure very close matching and packing of small square section wires in a coil. No doubt our friends at Honda have those resources. The real advantage to this precise winding technique would be a reduction in the physical dimensions of the windings and ultimate equivalent motor size.

These advantages may not be worthwhile given the size of the winding used for the upgrade stator. An increase in output can apparently be provided utilising the current available space and there is a limit to the output determined by the rest of the generation equipment. IMHO if the upgraded output is within a safe working range from the rest of the system limits and the physical changes can be easily accomodated it is not necessary to introduce advanced winding techniques and manufacturing costs into the equation. The suggestion is a good one but retrofitting has an expensive ripple effect.

Too much change amounts to rejection.

Lenz

 

[mindtrip]

Stator/alternator question

The FJR's alternator output was one of my concerns when I chose to order the 2006 last Dec. Was hopeing to see an improvement on the '06 units but if not I'm glad to see someone is addressing the issue.
Very interested in your tests of the ElectroSport stator.
Rob

Does anyone know the claimed alternator output on the 2006's?

 

[Warchild]

Does anyone know the claimed alternator output on the 2006's?

Yes... it hasn't changed one iota; it's identical to all previous year's alternator output.

ESG130 Stator Update:

OK, got an stator update for y'all, and this one is starting to make me raise an eyebrow.... I'm starting to see some interesting Datel readings, and I'm not 100% sure what I make out of it quite yet.....

Anymore, it is rare to see the Datel climb above 14.0 volts, and that's with good engine speed and no additional electrical goodies running either (nothing but the bike with low-beams only). It use to not be this way the first number of times I had the bike out after installing the new stator. It used to run at 14.2v - 14.3v. Now I'll see 14.1v only when the bike is cold, just after I start it up. After it warms up, I never see anything higher than 14.0v

Here's a somewhat related note: now that I've had the bike out on some more lengthy rides - including a 600-mile run over the weekend - I am noticing that after the bike is hot, it's not unusual for the Datel to sink to 13.9v, and that's with no additional loads placed on the system! Again, this was never the case with the stock stator.

Still, on a happy note.... when I throw on the PHIDs, the Datel will sink to about 13.4v-13.5 volts for a few seconds, then slowly climb back up to around the 13.7v - 13.8v range (which is behavior that I expect).

But I don't care for this new, slightly lower readings during normal operation. I don't like to see the Datel with less than 14.2-ish volts with the engine above 3000RPM and no additional loads on the bike. This is the range the Datel usually stays at with the stock stator. I admit it is a little disconcerting to see the Datel displaying 13.9v at highway speeds with no electrical add-ons running (once the bike is hot).

OTOH, 13.9 volts is a perfectly healthy charge rate... and 13.7 volts with the PHIDs running is also a good number, one I expect to see, so.... I'm not ready to claim something is "wrong" yet, but I did want to report this apparent change in the Datel readings.

I do intend to check my electrical connections, but I don't think there is a problem with them, either. The Datel's positive lead comes directly from the battery's postive terminal. Similarly with the negative connection: it's directly from the batteries (-) post (via a simple toggle switch). So I don't think it's an issue where I am dropping a couple of tenths of voltage passing through a switched source, 'cuz I'm not using one for my signal voltage.

Regardless, I obviously need to test quite a bit more, which I am doing as time allows.

I'll be in contact with ElectroSport to discuss these developments with them as well.

 

[gr8eyes]

Dale, I have a hypothetical question for you. What minimum wattage would you like to see Yamaha have in the 07 alternator. I don't know anything about how much is appropriate. Of course I've been following these alternator threads for a couple of years, and noticed that the FJR's is a bit low but I don't recall reading what would work best considering the lights electrics etc....

I do hope this aftermarket stator does come through for everyone that wants it though.

Glenn

 

[Warchild]

Dale, I have a hypothetical question for you. What minimum wattage would you like to see Yamaha have in the 07 alternator.

I would like to see something on the order of at *least* 540-560 watts of usable power (vice "claimed" output power). Allegedly, this new stator is suppose to be somewhere in that ballpark. I'm not necessarily 100% sure about that... at least at this juncture.

According to testing, the claimed output of the stock stator (490-watts) is significantly higher than the actual output (405-watts), so perhaps we would need a claimed Yamaha output of about 630+ watts to actually realize a 540-watts on the business end of the alternator.... :roll:

 

[mindtrip]

The BMW "sport-tourer" (not really, but the most compared) R1200RT claims an alternator output of something like 750W. Not that I'm going to put on enough stuff to consume that entire amount, BUT I'd like to know I could.

Warchild, what are the Datel readings with a stock stator running at highway speeds with the PHIDs? Are the ESG130 readings higher, ie does it seem to function better under load?

 

[Warchild]

Warchild, what are the Datel readings with a stock stator running at highway speeds with the PHIDs? Are the ESG130 readings higher, ie does it seem to function better under load?

With the PHIDs burning, the ESG130 readings are slightly higher, but not by much, perhaps an extra .1v or .2v at highway speeds.

For the stock stator, I would see Datel readings of ~13.5 to 13.6 volts with the PHIDs lit off.

With the new stator... it's more like 13.7-ish (or so) volts at the same engine speed.

 

[mindtrip]

Thanks for the info. Doesn't seem like the cost is justified; there's not much of a gain over stock, especially given that it's dropping below 14 when hot. Thanks for the awesome work, I look forward to hearing more!