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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All,

For those who have been on this site for any amount of time will remember the problems I had with my beast missing... It has run well for a long time now, but it has come back with a vengence....

What I had found in past experiences was : A vaccuum line with a hole in it, a blocked fuel tank vent line... Now whether this was really the cause I really have my doubts now as it is back agian, and of course hoses were the first things I checked...

This time - I put the bike in to shop to have the valves checked as per 40K service, all be it late at about 49K.... "all within tolerances" they said. Good. Rode home, pouring rain, did not take notice of anything but road.

Sits the w/e and I jump on monday to commute to work as normal, about 30KMs along a 100KMhr road, then 10 mins slow speed stuff. All id fine till I do the slow speed stuff, and it is missing, trying to buck me off...

Not again I thought.... Ring the shop, not sure what would cause that but bring it in... I got one of the techs to ride it, so they knew what was happening, only at low speed I said... I figure at 80 + the revs are so hight that any miss is hard to detect...

Yep, you have a problem he said... Good, finally got someone to believe me, of course it would never do it in the past when I took it in... Into the shop it went...

5hrs later i go to pick it up.... could not really find anything...We drained the tank, put fresh fuel in and an additive. Take her home and see how it goes.. Skeptical, Ok I said.

Rode the 90KMs home, and all appeared well. Bloody fuel I thought... Leave it sit for the w/e and ride it to work Monday just gone, it starts missing all again.... I rang the shop back, not sure what it can be.... Bring it back in....

So to you wise & wonderful people, where do I suggest they start to look ??

For mine, it has to be a fuel thing. But what I don't understand is how it can run ok, then turn to &^% after the fuel has been drained etc... I looked in the manual and do not see a fuel filter anywhere, is there one ?

Maybe there is someting blocking an injector, but if so, would it not be consistent ?? The bike is an 03, with 49K on the clock. Maybe a plug, but I did change them at the 40K service...

Bottom line is that it is out of warranty, is certainly unsafe in it's present condition especially around town... I expect I will have to pay to get it fixed, so I want to avoid as many $$ as possible in labour while they figure it out....

Any help appreciated.
 

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With this type of problem, always, always, change the plugs first.

Plugs are cheap and easy to change, if it fixes the problem, great. If it doesn't, so what, you will still be able to afford beer and food. Also, it's a good opportunity to compare the colours of the plugs. If one plug is a different colour to the others, it may give a clue as to which cylinder is not firing, or if they are all even, the problem may be effecting all the cylinders.

I've never understood why people are so tight when it comes to changing plugs. If they cost hundreds of dollars each, I would understand, but for a couple of bucks, what the hell? A friend of mine who has been a mechanic all his life, will not even start a tune up, or troubleshooting, until he has changed the plugs on whatever vehicle he is working on.

Then, check the TPS.
 

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Check the fuel cap vent for any blockages (again), in case a vacuum is being created. Dusty conditions causing it to block again?

I assume that you don't have a Power Commander fitted.

Bleed the injectors? maybe an air bubble causing an intermittent fuel starvation. Draining the fuel may have disturbed it, then it has found its way to the injectors again. I seem to remember a couple of people had this type of problem (or no start) after bikes being stood for a while. I believe Warchild did a comprehensive instruction on how to do it. I think it was simply disconnect them, crank the engine with HT leads grounded, re-connect and fire up, or something like that.

Perform a throttle body synch, it may help.
 

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For what it's worth. You mentioned riding in rain, with the problem occurring shortly thereafter. Often, weatherpack connectors of the type used on the Feej are very good at their jobs, but this goes both ways. They will keep moisture out, but will also, once it's in, keep it there. You also have some miles on, so corrosion of key connectors is a suspicion. Sooo, take an afternoon, 2 cans of quality brake or contact cleaner, a small stiff toothbrush or other small brush, a can or 2 of spray air (like the duster for computers) and a tube of silicone dielectric compound. Unplug EVERY connection you can get your hands on, note it's condition, spray and clean spotless using the cleaner and brush, dry well with the canned air, load with the dielectric, and firmly reconnect. You WILL solve the problem, even if you cannot readily identify the culprit. Sometimes, rarely, they will just jump out at you-look for green or whitish deposits and you've found a possible contributor.
 

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Missing

radman is on the right track. Also, I suggest checking the high tension cables to the plugs. On mine the rubber caps are sometimes a pain to pull out. One risks pulling the cable out of the resistor connection which attaches to the plug. The cable simply screws into the resistor top.

BAGSTR
 

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My US '03 missed a few times after power washing it (and yes, I was amply thrashed by you all for power washing my bike and do not do it any longer).

So I would vote for there maybe being water involved somewhere??

Boof
 

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You've said the missing happens AFTER sitting for a weekend, maybe condensation (getting water in the gas tank)????
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
OK....

Hi All,

Thanks for the numerous suggestions.

Is TPS the throttle body sync ?? If so, I checked that before I put in the second time, was within limits according to the book, but I tidied it a bit.

Plugs is my next step. The only reason I havn't yet is they are only about 10K old.., but worth a try.

I have alredy checked the fuel vent line, was first thing I did try actually.

Rain - The rain happened on the way to the valve job and way home... so could be... BUT, I took back 2nd time, No rain in sight and they did drain tank (so they said) and put fuel additive in. So hard to blame rain/water this tiem, but still not out of question.

The connectors - Again this could be BUT, why would it run for 90KMs hassle free, then start missing again after sitting for the weekend.??

HT cables, will check when I do plugs :)

Condesation in the tank after sitting w/e... Could be , but after the summer we have just had it should hae happened numerous times before, nothing. Besides the tank was nearly full from trip 2 to the dealer.

Guys I really appreciate your tips and will try your suggestions... Although 49K on the clock, it has not seen much wet weather, and 99% of the time when it is idle it is either in the garage at home or the basement of my building at work, tis a pampered little bike !! So although 3 yrs old, it stilooks lie it came off the showroom floor... But again, I will not discount anything and try the easier things first...

Will keep you updated. Thanks again.
 

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Atlas TPS = Throttle Position Sensor, if this goes wrong it can throw out the fuelling.
 

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Trying to separate fuel starvation from an engine miss could be as simple as checking the plugs as suggested earlier. Wet dirty plugs on some pots and light tan on the others suggests a partial miss and localised cause. Wet dirty plugs on the lot suggests a shared electrical fault. White grey plugs on all the pots suggests fuel starvation - vents, twisted hoses or injection issues?

Good luck mate

Lenz
 

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Re: OK....

atlas said:
The connectors - Again this could be BUT, why would it run for 90KMs hassle free, then start missing again after sitting for the weekend.??
Because this is the nature of intermittent electrical connections, and why a shop will get $1000 to replace a $1.50 part after 14 hours of testing. Your call.
 

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Missing, maybe it's the

I may be blowing exhaust but it sounds like the crankshaft position sensor. I had a similar problem and after replacing, Walla ..
 

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Could be any number of sensors. My suggestion is cheap and easy, just time consuming. Often sensor replacement will repair a problem not because the sensor was bad, but the connection was, the act of unplugging the old and installing the new (with it's clean connectors) solves the problem, and the new sensor gets the credit for the fix. Only by testing the old sensor can one be sure, this is why so many good single line mechanics have a drawer full of known good sensors and ecms, they can just rotate out a suspected one and see if thats solved the problem-the recommended test procedure can be time consuming and doesn't take into account an intermittent or heat related problem, which can be near impossible to reproduce. Solving intermittent problems involves time more than anything-my suggestion eliminates one of the big contributors to this type of problem.
 

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I have to agree with radman to check the connectors to the various sensors before actually replacing those same sensors. A corroded sensor could cause the kind of thing you're experiencing.

However, I'd bet a twenty dollar bill that you'll find it to be the throttle position sensor (TPS) as Finnfjr suggested. Of all the things mentioned such as plugs or throttle sync or vacuum leaks, etc, it's the only thing that is intermittent in nature or that causes the severe "bucking" you describe. If plugs are bad, they don't suddenly become good and throttles don't syncronize themselves, so once there's a problem, it isn't going to fix itself. Same with vacuum leaks. I won't reiterate my own first hand experience with this here, but do a search on TPS or Throttle Position Sensor on this site to find lots more references to this documented issue. You are not allone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
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Hi Guys,

Just an update... Dropped bike of on Friday arvo, was missing the worst it ever has... Technician rings me up today to get overview of what had been happening...

Rings back this arvo... Changed the fuel, took it for a ride, seems fine (That is what they did last time).... %#[email protected]%#%@% Well I said, ride the %#$%@%@ thing home and back tomorrrow and see how it goes, I am not organising transport back in an over an hour to get there to find it is still %$#%@#%.. I want it fixed or pushed over cliff I told him... I think he got the hint.

So hopefully it will play up on him, or they can keep it there and ride it until it does, or they convince me it is ok. I did mention the TPS and he said that it could be but after he checked the ohm (?) levels it appeared to be ok...

Will keep you updated :)
 

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@Atlas

Hang in there. The shop mechanic will find we reason for this sh%&y behaviour. Intermittent malfunctions can really drive you mad and frustrated. I especially dislike electrical "come and go" problems. You really have to be methodical and logical to solve these bugs.

I would have bet on the TPS to be the culprit (and stiil do). The symptoms were exactly the same as I´ve experienced on injected car engines. If the CPS is malfunctioning/broken, the engine doesn't start. The CPS tells when the cyl. nr 1. is at TDC. Without this information the ECU doesn't know when to fire, and to start the firing sequence. To my experince when the CPS is kaput then the engine doesn't run at all. Yours run, so the reason should be somewhere else. More than once I´ve found out that the problem was a bad ground connection/cable. But you don't mention any weird starting problems, shutting down, clock resetting, for no reason and such. Your FJR is just bucking , spitting and misbehaving.
:twisted:

The self-diagnostic fault codes should be stored in the system. Your shop mechanic can/will(?) check these codes and find the reason. Its like radman wrote "a shop will get $1000 to replace a $1.50 part after 14 hours of testing". However if the wrench is any good he'll manage to fix this in a much shorter time. Have faith and good luck.

Finnfjr
 
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