[radiostatic]

I'm in the midst of a valve check and had to replace some valve pad/shims. So, let's say theoretically... :grin2: ... that one of the shims managed to fall into the engine. In the below picture, you can see the two exhaust valves of cylinder 1 (with the buckets/valve lifters off). To the right, where the red arrow is pointing, there is a hole that goes down about 6 - 8 inches. If a shim found its way down there, what's the best way of getting it out?



I dropped a magnet on a string down there, and it seems to be falling down far enough, but some part of the engine down there is ferrous and the magnet is finding that instead of the shim. I have an endoscope and got it down there, and I can see where the vertical pipe hits another horizontal passage, but I couldn't see the shim. As I was messing with it, the f*** plastic end of the endoscope that covers the lens came off!! :surprise: I managed to get that out eventually with a flexible claw grabber (while fishing blindly down there). I got another endoscope from Harbor Freight, and the non-flexible tip (the camera lens) is too long and I can't get this scope into the passageway. Great...


I *really really* don't want to take the engine apart (because I think that would surpass my mechanic ability). Is there another way of getting at that location? Am I fishing around in the cylinder or something else? Does someone have some angioplasty equipment with a claw I could borrow? And yes, lesson learned. Cover ALL the holes, and don't get used to the shims sticking to the bucket, because one of them won't.

 

[slowdave]

I haven't had an FJR opened up yet but lots of other engines. I can't figure out what that hole is from your pic. Could be oil drain back or possibly a cylinder head bolt hole (though the latter doesn't match your description). Could you take a shot looking straight down the hole and give its diameter? (You already said 6-8" deep, and then intersects another drilling at around 90°.) Also a farther away pic showing how this hole lays out with the rest of the head.

One sure thing: you are not in the cylinder. And my tool of choice would probably be the magnet on a small telescoping stick. Much better control than on a string. Unless it's around the corner.

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[radiostatic]

There is a bolt there (#7 in the below picture) if you're looking down at it from above, but I can't look straight down into the hole. You have to go toward the front of the bike slightly around kind of a corner before going down the pipe. I'll try to get another pic tomorrow. I can't get a telescoping magnet in there because of the corner.

 

[RaYzerman]

If you have one of those telescoping magnets that has a metal sleeve around the magnet, it won't stick sideways....
I have a cylinder head and engine cases here, I'll dig them out tomorrow and see where that goes. If it's at one of the numbered holes, that is cylinder head bolts, so the shim may be laying on the head of the bolt or right beside it.

 

[radiostatic]

It's a hole just forward of the cylinder head bolt. Fortunately, I saw the shim fall into it, so at least I know exactly where it went. Because of the shape of the cylinder head walls, I can't go straight down that hole. You have to approach it from an angle and almost turn a corner downward. So I can't get a telescoping magnet into it. Is there such a thing as a telescoping magnet with a flexible shaft? Thanks for any insight you could provide when you look at your cases.

 

[red]

Is there such a thing as a telescoping magnet with a flexible shaft?

Radiostatic,

Google for

magnet on flexible shaft

and then click the IMAGES button near the top of the Google screen.
Many, many choices are there, with a lot of mechanical grabbers tossed into the mix for the confusion factor. Dig deep! ;-)
Take your pick, and then call to see if any local stores might carry that item. Most manufacturers have a Store Finder option.
Most stores will have a computerized inventory that will tell you how many of such items they have on hand, with a phone call.
I doubt that there is any need for the flexible shaft to be telescoping, as long as the magnetic head is not too long.
.

 

[slowdave]

It's a hole just forward of the cylinder head bolt. Fortunately, I saw the shim fall into it, so at least I know exactly where it went. Because of the shape of the cylinder head walls, I can't go straight down that hole. You have to approach it from an angle and almost turn a corner downward. So I can't get a telescoping magnet into it. Is there such a thing as a telescoping magnet with a flexible shaft? Thanks for any insight you could provide when you look at your cases.

Likely oil drainback hole then? It's at the lowest point of the rocker box and in an area of low stress and too far away (and probably too large) to be a pressurized oil supply drilling.

Hopefully the guy with the spare block will be able to shed some light tomorrow.

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[radiostatic]

Radiostatic,

Google for

magnet on flexible shaft

and then click the IMAGES button near the top of the Google screen.
Many, many choices are there, with a lot of mechanical grabbers tossed into the mix for the confusion factor. Dig deep! ;-)
Take your pick, and then call to see if any local stores might carry that item. Most manufacturers have a Store Finder option.
Most stores will have a computerized inventory that will tell you how many of such items they have on hand, with a phone call.
I doubt that there is any need for the flexible shaft to be telescoping, as long as the magnetic head is not too long.
.

Darn it. I spent so much time today going around to the hardware stores, I forgot I never searched online for tools. I found one on Amazon which won't be here for several days, but at least it's on the way if I can't something locally.

 

[red]

Darn it. I spent so much time today going around to the hardware stores, I forgot I never searched online for tools. I found one on Amazon which won't be here for several days, but at least it's on the way if I can't something locally.

Radiostatic,

Wow, brave dude . . . No others in your family?

You could not pay me enough to browse one more brick-n-mortar store than absolutely necessary.
I may want curbside service there, even so.
Maybe in a few months that mess will change, but for now, I'll either be on-line, or on the phone.
.

 

[Way8lifter]

How about vacuum??? A hose shoved down there and find a way to get suction.. Mighty vac? your mouth..potential YECK! A small vacuum pump .. ( starting a
65 $$ on Amazon ....found a cheepy fpr 18 .. but who knos if it had enough pull a suction gun ( long shaft with tube on end where you draw back on a handle to create suction .. at amazon search suction pump .
I had the sparkplug washer fall off ( 1200 Bandit) as I passed between cylinder 2 and one ( only way to remove the lug is as you pull out you go over the top of the adjacent plug
.anyway .. I did use an endo scope that had a very small hook on it and was able to get it out after 15 minutes .

 

[rogerf]

Mount a thin hose to your vacuum cleaner with tape or something.

 

[mikester]

Time for a borescope camera !

 

[RaYzerman]

Quick look..... see pics attached. It is an oil drain hole right beside the #7 head bolt, drains straight down along the outside edge of the block. Then drops onto the middle of the balance shaft, HOWEVER, see item 26, a stamped metal curved deflector that forces the oil to drain down AROUND the balancer and down the outside wall of the block.

You will not likely get any kind of borescope, magnet, etc. down, make the 90 degree bend then curve around the balancer. I will get more pics that will show this clearly.
Preliminarily, I will speculate this shim will wash its way into the oil pan..... hold this thought, I would drain the oil, pour a solvent like mineral spirits/Varsol down the head bolt hole to flush it into bottom of the oil pan (oil will tend to be sticky, so use thin solvent). Leave drain plug out, stick magnet up the drain hole to bottom surface of oil pan.

More to come....... I will determine if this has a clear path to the oil pan, looking good so far. Take a deep breath, relax...

Pic of balancer for fun, note oil path is right at front edge of the block Forward of the balancer, will wash down the inside wall of the block to the pan........

Hang in for a bit.....

 

[Mr_Ed]

How about vacuum??? A hose shoved down there and find a way to get suction.. Mighty vac? your mouth..potential YECK! A small vacuum pump .. ( starting a
65 $$ on Amazon ....found a cheepy fpr 18 .. but who knos if it had enough pull a suction gun ( long shaft with tube on end where you draw back on a handle to create suction .. at amazon search suction pump .
I had the sparkplug washer fall off ( 1200 Bandit) as I passed between cylinder 2 and one ( only way to remove the lug is as you pull out you go over the top of the adjacent plug
.anyway .. I did use an endo scope that had a very small hook on it and was able to get it out after 15 minutes .

I've had success one time using a shop vac. I put a small, plastic tube in the end of the vacuum hose and taped it in place with no leaks. My situation didn't involve a shim, but with a square cut there's maybe a small chance you could hit a flat side and pull it out ..... maybe :serious:

 

[RaYzerman]

SO...... we are not going to get too concerned here.... let's follow this drain passage beside #7 head bolt, viewed from top of engine case (head removed).

Under side showing deflector for oil to go AROUND the balancer....

Now looking at lower engine case from the top, oil path along outside of engine case... note cast gallery running length of engine case (north south) is oil path to the engine oil cooler at front of block. Oil would run right over this and down into the pan. Nothing to get hung up on.

Crankshaft set in, plenty of clearance to engine block, no worries.

Underside of oil gallery for engine oil cooler, oil will run down this path where the green tape is. Note, I set in oil pump and pickup screen for reference.

Set oil pan on, note location of drain plug.... excuse the 90k miles of grime..... path of oil drain is right in this corner of the pan. You have to figure out the orientation of things in your head.....

Inside the pan, the oil drains down into the quadrant near the drain plug, note vertical baffle, oil pickup will be to the right of it and in the deeper part of the pan, not that it matters much.

Closer view of drain plug, note recess around it, oil collects here and drains out. The width of the channel is only 7-8 mm, so a 9.5mm round shim would have to travel in here on it's edge to come out the drain plug hole... could happen, or even if it ended up in the recess.... note you can see the threads on the side of the drain plug.... This is why you don't use the 31 ft. lbs. drain plug torque spec., risk of stripping. But do note, you'll gain a thread if you use a longer drain bolt should you ever strip one.

Also note, one can swap in the magnetic drain plug from the final drive, but the magnet will be too high in the oil level to do much, but never know.

So my conclusion is..... flush the shim down to the drain plug hole, perhaps with a piece of 3/4" plywood under the right leg of the centerstand to make it slope left... one may get lucky and that shim lodges itself in the slot/passage, or magically flip on its edge and roll out.... one can always stick a thin magnet wand in there and see if it's attracted...
HOWEVER, there is no danger I can see if a shim lives in the oil pan. Sump has a very fine screen and it will not get sucked into the oil pump, even if it could make it over there.

Sleep well tonight.

 

[Mr_Ed]

Mount a thin hose to your vacuum cleaner with tape or something.

I posted before reading yours. I used a lot more words. Conciseness has never been one of my strong points. :laugh:

 

[RaYzerman]

It would have to be a small hose, like 1/4"... it might be impossible to go around the balancer deflector... try it, can't lose.

 

[radiostatic]

Awesome, thanks so much for the detailed pics and explanations. I got some mineral spirit this morning and drained the oil and flushed some mineral spirit through, but no luck yet. It's like watching for kidney stones! Contemplating how to get a magnet up in the drain hole without losing that, too!

 

[chucksklrst]

this is the magnet tool you need to get up in the oil pan. https://uniortools.com/eng/product/2087-flexible-pick-up-tool-with-magnet

 

[RaYzerman]

Good idea, Chuck, but the tip on that one appears to be 15mm.... drain plug is 14mm, so need a thin one.
I have a telescopic one that has a wire section and a magnet maybe 1/4" diameter, could bend it.... but wouldn't be all that long to fish around much. Maybe enough, who knows.
Could perhaps epoxy a small rare earth magnet to the end of something flexible/bendable, doesn't have to be all that strong, a shim doesn't weigh much, the oil pan is aluminum not magnetic. Or, just forget about it, I don't see the harm in leaving it in there if it comes to that.
A worse job would be dropping the pan, lots involved there.... remove side fairings, move rad forward at bottom, undo and remove headers.... I'd leave it in there.