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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
DANG!
Fuel is weeping again... where the fuel pump meets the tank somewhere at the rear side. I was extremely careful putting it together ten days ago... used the Loctite 518 and all... made dead sure the tank surface was polish-smooth and everything hospital clean... torque the little bolts to near 4 n/m, as per manual.
Just a small drip... if I touch a blue paper towel to the bottom assembly, there is a minor wet spot, coming from the rear area, at the juncture. Garage smells of gasoline every morning.
Not good to have ANY fuel leaking in or around the engine bay, eh?
Back to the drawing board.

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Discussion Starter · #24 · (Edited)
I'll definitely be re-checking my vent hoses... although I did that not long ago. But maybe there's a kink.

The OEM gasket is delta-shaped - flat on the (plastic pump)-side... V-staped where it meets the tank. I'm seriously considering trying an O-ring instead.
Anyone got a thought on this?
My measurements for a possible O-ring suggest 85mm x 4mm . McMaster or Grainger would have a decent Buna-N unit

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I'm supposing you checked the fuel tank flange is flat..... certainly is a mystery. I don't think you have anything to lose by trying a suitable O-ring. That's what older Honda's used but they kinda fitted into a recess. Snug down each screw in steps uniformly, criss-cross pattern.... Perhaps try again but without the gasket sealer....
 
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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
I'm supposing you checked the fuel tank flange is flat..... certainly is a mystery. I don't think you have anything to lose by trying a suitable O-ring. That's what older Honda's used but they kinda fitted into a recess. Snug down each screw in steps uniformly, criss-cross pattern.... Perhaps try again but without the gasket sealer....
Certainly a mystery.. so far!
I'll get it .. . I'd examined all surfaces with a magnifying glass... cleaned all to "hospital"... laid a very even smear of the 518 on the bare metal surface and even coated the gasket very lightly. Then assembled it, using the criss-cross bolt down evenly and carefully. My (smaller) torque wrench reads down to 5 N/M. and I turned it out another 1 to get the factory-req'd "4". Then I let it all dry for a complete 24 hours.

Hm. So yeah, I'm going to see if I can find a proper O-ring from McMaster, give that a try.
Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Quadruple Aaargh!
I've done everything I can think of... and it's STILL weeping.

1) Cleaned the bejeezus out of all surfaces and used a new OEM F.P. gasket, torqued it down evenly to 4.5 N/M.. Nope.
2) Cleaned again, tried Suzuki Bond. Nope.
3) " " " , tried Loctite 714. Nope. Still weeping.
4) " " " , tried Permatex Permashield Orange (as recommended by a pro mechanic pal). Nope.
I can't see any signs that the tank has holes or anything in the sheet metal; I've sanded the mating surface with 800.
I can't find any cracks in the plastic fuel pump mating surfaces.
The (female) threads into the tank look to be segregated from the fuel supply.
The F.P. flange is flat.

It's been messy, in that every time I make an attempt, I have to siphon the fuel out... pour it back in later.. wait for it to weep... repeat.
Those little (5mm? 4?) bolts holding the pump on are scary- if the tanks threads strip I'm in for a world of pain.

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Some pretty terrible application. Can you not see the issues at 3:00?
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I'd also smear around the bolt holes too. Just in case.
 

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I'm going to make one WAG here. Are you sure the bottom of the threaded holes in the fuel tank are clean of accumulated build up that may cause the screws to bottom out before tightening up completely? Are those the original mounting screws? Are you sure the screws are not just a tad too long? Might try putting a washer under the screw heads to make them "shorter".

Seems like you've tried everything else, and maybe you've already examined the screw holes, too.


dan


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Discussion Starter · #32 · (Edited)
I'd also smear around the bolt holes too. Just in case.
Yeah.. I did that when I used the Loctite 714 on the previous try. I didn't do it this time because I realized the threads on the tank side are not in contact with the fuel... in THEORY, anyway!

I guess it's possible that one (or more) of those bolt holes ARE getting leaks through to the tank somehow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 · (Edited)
Are you sure the bottom of the threaded holes in the fuel tank are clean of accumulated build up that may cause the screws to bottom out before tightening up completely?
I cleaned them out pretty carefully with Brakeleen-saturated Q-tips; didn't see any debris left in there. Bolts seemed to all torque evenly.
TORQUE- My inch-pound torque wrench only technically reads down to 5.1 n/m, in terms of actual numbers. With another half-twist out (using the lines) I can supposedly reach 4 n/m. It's a pretty good quality wrench.. but so LOW on the spring/scale; I wonder how accurate it is. I certainly don't want to push it much tighter.

Are those the original mounting screws? Are you sure the screws are not just a tad too long? Might try putting a washer under the screw heads to make them "shorter".
They're the original screws. I like your idea of a washer... as long as I'm getting full thread contact. As I mentioned, I'm freaky-deaky about stripping a thread on the tank side.

Seems like you've tried everything else, and maybe you've already examined the screw holes, too.
Yessir. Pretty carefully.

Maybe I just need... MORE. More Goop! Slather it all over the place, dripping off like pancake syrup. Hell, coat the outside of the tank completely. Like Frank's Hot sauce- I (should) put that sh*t on everything. :p
I'll figure it out.. eventually!
 

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Well, certainly don't over tighten..... too bad it's trial and error shit...... how about putting some of the sealer in your bolt holes to take care of the possibility of leaking in those recesses/seal the threads? You can tell when the bolts are tight (with experience I'm sure you have). Is the plastic pump flange OK, not cracked, etc.? Sealer on the gasket shouldn't need to be very much at all, or not even needed, however..... do we have a good O-ring on the fuel line? Put it back together, spray the underside around the flange and fuel fittings with foot powder, go ride, check for weeps someday and the foot powder should tell you where it's coming from..... all I got. I feel your pain.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Thanks, RaY.
Yep... sounds like a good plan.. to goop-up the bolt holes. If one of them happens to be open to the tank innards, that might be the cause, (and why I haven't found it yet). I've tried about everything else!
.
I inspected the F.P. plastic and have seen no sort of cracking, etc... But each time I take it off, I look MORE closely. Tomorrow I will get out my electron-microscope.

I don't think the weeping is coming from the fuel line or connector - each time I go to check for leaks I use a fresh blue shop paper towel, and any wetness always seems to be coming from the outside juncture of the flange and tank... usually it's been on the rear edge. But nothing from the connector, as I can see.

I'll get the bastid !
:cool:
 

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This is crazy. Are you SURE the weep is at the flange/gasket and not from the fuel hose fitting?
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
This is crazy. Are you SURE the weep is at the flange/gasket and not from the fuel hose fitting?
yeah... every time I go to check for the leak I use a fresh blue paper shop towel.. and the weep is ALWAYS from the outside of the rim of the flange.
Buddy of mine is a very good auto mechanic; he told me tales of very fine hair-line cracks in the fuel-pump plastic (he says it's very similar to car FP's), so I will really.. REALLY look at that tomorrow.

If it's not that, then there's really only two other possibilities to my thinking-
1) fuel is leaking through the bolt holes into the tank, or
2) there is a pinhole broach somewhere in the tank metal itself. Pretty unlikely, as there is NO sign of rust inside the tank at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
dang.
STILL leaking, after using a fresh McMaster Carr O-ring and Permatex Permashield goop... totally cleaning everything, yadda yadda.
Strange.. I just pulled the fuel pump out today (fourth time? fifth?), it's sitting on the desk in front of me right now. I can't see ANY flaws in the gasket area, I've gone over it with a magnifying glass. The tank mating area is clean and smooth.. I've tried different gasket/O-rings and different sealants. It's definitely not coming from the fuel line or fitting, as the tank leaks by itself when not connected, and I don't think it's coming through the bolt holes, (but that's hard to see, with the flange in place), and yes, I have used sealant on them.

There's only one small anomaly I can find at this point: the aluminum flange is very slightly convex, all the way around, on the side away from the tank -

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I don't know if that's enough to cause a leak... but it's the ONLY thing I can find at this point. Amazing. I mean, this shouldn't be Rocket Science, right?
I feel like I'm in an Alternate Universe or something
 

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Just thinking out loud here... do those tiny nubs on the outside of the o-ring/gasket fit into any recesses on the pump assembly? And is that metal ring that the bolts go thru part of the plastic pump housing? if not are you using gasket sealer in-between that metal ring and the plastic pump?
 
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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
... do those tiny nubs on the outside of the o-ring/gasket fit into any recesses on the pump assembly?
Apparently not -
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...And is that metal ring that the bolts go thru part of the plastic pump housing?
No... a separate piece-
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....if not are you using gasket sealer in-between that metal ring and the plastic pump?
The flange (above) presses onto the bottom of the white plastic fuel pump, which has a (cross-section V) O-ring/gasket between it and the bare tank metal surrounding a big hole that it all goes in to.

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PS- that was an earlier photo .. since then, that surface above is just about mirror.
Other than a very tiny pock-marking in the sheet steel material, I have found no cracks/dents or flaws in that surface.
 
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