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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all, I have recently started treating my gas as I can only get ethanol blended gas where I live. I would rather not carry around a large bottle but haven't seen a cost effective small bottle alternative. Any suggestions from this august group?
 

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Your bike was designed to run fine on 10% ethanol 87 grade. If it makes you feel better you can dump in some Seafoam every few months and run it through the tank. In the winter dump in some Seafoam and run it through the carbs and it will be fine until spring.
 

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I have never “treated” gas during riding season
in 14 years of FJR ownership.
At the end of riding season, before parking the
bike for winter, I treat a full tank of gas with Stabil.
At the start of riding season, before the first ride,
I add a dose of injector cleaner.
Never had an issue.
 

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Hi all, I have recently started treating my gas as I can only get ethanol blended gas where I live. I would rather not carry around a large bottle but haven't seen a cost effective small bottle alternative. Any suggestions from this august group?
Jim,

Where the heck do you live? Non-ethanol gasoline may be a little rare, but it can be found in lots of places in the USA. Not all of these sellers are gas stations; one place near me is a refinery. You just ride right in, fill up, and pre-pay with a credit card. Locally, nobody (it seems) knows the refinery sells to the public. I would not park my bike even for a month with ethanol-gas in the tank. Anyway, in the USA, maybe you can find local gas stations that sell gasoline, not just ethanol-gas, on this link:

www.pure-gas.org

:mrgreen:
.
 

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I have never "treated" gas during riding season
in 14 years of FJR ownership.
At the end of riding season, before parking the
bike for winter, I treat a full tank of gas with Stabil.
At the start of riding season, before the first ride,
I add a dose of injector cleaner.
Never had an issue.
This is exactly what I do. I run exclusively 87 octane with 10% ethanol. In the spring I use Berryman's cleaner.

IMHO the days of worrying about ethanol are long gone. You're just wasting money.
 

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Ethanol fuel is fine... until you don't ride the bike for a while. As moisture is absorbed, the ethanol gets saturated (it can only handle 4.5% water), and we get what is called phase separation... the excess water sits at the bottom of the tank and causes starting and running problems... you call it "bad gas". Starts happening in a couple of weeks.
The other thing that happens is a gum film builds as gasoline evaporates... BTW, pure gasoline will not degrade for a couple of years in those tank farms. The ethanol and additives are added right before delivery to the oil company's specifications, and the tank truck makes its way to the gas station.

Dumping in Seafoam does two things, the naptha is a slow-acting solvent that dissolves gums, the isopropanol can disperse a large amount of water, many times what ethanol can. So that's why it works. It happens to be a good stabilizer. Naptha is in lots of stuff, GooGone, WD40, wax removers, etc.
So doesn't hurt to use some Seafoam once in a while, and especially if you have "bad gas". If you look up the MSDS for the product you use as a fuel conditioner, you'll find most contain mostly naptha. "Injector cleaners" add some harsher solvent like Benzine, etc. in a very small amount. Then they stick a fancy label on it and market the heck out of it so you will buy it. Seafoam at one time was marketed as "Mechanic In A Can". I like it because it's simple.

You can do your own research..... every time you hear of a snake oil, go look it up and see what's really in it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I live in NH and the only place even close to me is in Concord, it's a power equipment co and they run 95 octane and they are miles away.
 

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There is only one product I would add to my gas. I've seen results myself, and heard many more from my customers that have used it and returned to share their experience and buy more. **** I sound like an ad... But how else can you sound when it just works so well?

I'm always looking for the best. Right now it's Helix.

Helix 5in1
https://www.helix5in1.com/
 

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Napa has sales once in a while C$7 a can, not sure if their current sale just ended (was on for month of June). You can buy a gallon, but not a huge discount. Can Tire/Royal etc. tend to go retail at $12-13. Walmart USA U$7-10.
Alternative, Gumout.
Could not find MSDS for Helix 5-in-1... guarantee you it has a goodly percentage of isopropanol for the water issue, very likely it has naptha.. and of course "the proprietary blend" to make it their own. No harm at all, if it's similarly priced, go for it. As for the octane booster part, ethanol lowers octane a touch, generally fuel mileage is lower (they estimate ~11%). Adding a more volatile solvent will raise octane.
Shell Canada's premium is ethanol free, since regular and premium are blended, mid-grade has 5% ethanol. No problem using ethanol, except it does attack diaphrams in your small engine carbs. Use ethanol free there if you can.... premium runs cooler than regular.
 

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All good advice ! There’s a lot of internet “expert” advice on the current gas but quite frankly most of it isn’t true, same with only running premium vs regular for more power or mileage which isn’t true unless your engine has a knock sensor to be able to optimize ignition timing to take advantage of the added octane.

The truth is that a gallon of regular has more btu’s of energy per gallon than a gallon of premium, unless your engine has the ability to tune itself to be able to use the extra octane. Premium fuel uses additives to increase the anti-knock capabilities and those additives displace volume (btu’s) in each gallon.

As far as additives go, I myself prefer adding a little Lucas fuel treatment every 3-4 thankfully even in the cars which keeps the carbs/injectors cleaner. I store over the winter with the fuel treated with Lucas, Stabil and a bit of Marvel Mystery Oil which helps de-carbon the top end.

Personally I’m not a big SeaFoam fan as years ago on a couple of the old bikes I stored for the winter wouldn’t run in the spring and I found the carbs full of a really hard to remove green jello, I didn’t know what to think, thought it was just the gas and repeated the next year and found the exact same results, never had anything like that with Lucas, not 100% sure it was the seafoam but it is the only variable that I changed. I think it’s ok but I won’t store with it in the tank again. My .02
 

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The problem with ethanol "treatments" is that they are more of the same sort of thing as ethanol. Yes, more alcohol (not more ethanol but another alcohol) can "disperse" more water but therein lies the problem. When there is a lot of water it starts coming out of solution bringing ethanol with it. Phase separation. But adding "treatment" that keeps that water in solution forcing it through your engine is also bad.

The best thing you can do when parking the FJR is fill the tank and park somewhere temperature stable. The FJR tank is sealed until a certain pressure (or vacuum) is met. Meanwhile there is little wet air inside until the tank is forced to breathe and admit more wet air. Sadly this is where CARB emission vehicles excel as the breathing is conducted through charcoal canister which helps with the moisture problem.
 
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I've been using Star Tron. Primarily for the "storage" - if I'm parking the bike for more than a week I put couple oz of it in the tank. It comes in few different bottle sizes.
 

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The problem with ethanol "treatments" is that they are more of the same sort of thing as ethanol. Yes, more alcohol (not more ethanol but another alcohol) can "disperse" more water but therein lies the problem. When there is a lot of water it starts coming out of solution bringing ethanol with it. Phase separation. But adding "treatment" that keeps that water in solution forcing it through your engine is also bad..
Not really true. Isopropanol is not the same as ethanol at all. It will take care of a lot of water with no harmful effects. You can buy various strengths already premixed with water, so buy as close to 100% as you can get. Ethanol only can "disperse" ~4.5% water, after that it is overloaded = phase separation. All it takes is a few tablespoons of water in your gas tank, and when it settles to the bottom you got problems.
Seafoam has roughly 30% isopropanol. You could even mix up your own if you had some naptha and have a poor man's Seafoam.

Carlson - Startron is 90-95% naptha.
 

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Water carried in suspension in gasoline is bad bad bad no matter what. The only solution is to prevent the water from getting there in the first place. "Ethanol treatments" which allow more water to be carried in solution before separation are forcing that water through your engine.

Isopropanol nor naphtha make water acceptable. It does not neutralize water or ethanol as much of the marketing claims.

E10 runs leaner than E0. E10 with isopropanol and water will run even leaner, if it runs at all. Naphtha is a common component of gasoline and is a pretty good performance enhancer.

Ethanol does not hurt gaskets or brass until it has water to complete the reaction.

Throwing water into E10 washes ethanol out. Decant the "gasoline" off the top, find hazardous waste disposal for the stuff at the bottom. Problem is the ethanol remaining in the gasoline is still saturated with water. But there will be less ethanol and less water.
 

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Do you treat the gas that you run in your car and/or truck as well? If the answer is no, then there is no need to treat it in your bike either. If the answer is yes, stop doing it. But seriously, the FJR will run just fine on 87 octane with 10% ethanol. I run Yamaha Ring Free Plus through a tank or two every season and at the end of the season I run a tank or two of Shell 91 (non-ethanol) and keep the tank full and put some fuel stabilizer in for winter storage.

Zwartie

Hi all, I have recently started treating my gas as I can only get ethanol blended gas where I live. I would rather not carry around a large bottle but haven't seen a cost effective small bottle alternative. Any suggestions from this august group?
 

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Do you treat the gas that you run in your car and/or truck as well? If the answer is no, then there is no need to treat it in your bike either. If the answer is yes, stop doing it. But seriously, the FJR will run just fine on 87 octane with 10% ethanol. I run Yamaha Ring Free Plus through a tank or two every season and at the end of the season I run a tank or two of Shell 91 (non-ethanol) and keep the tank full and put some fuel stabilizer in for winter storage.

Zwartie
I try to balance my fuel system maintenance based on how much the vehicle is used. I'm not a cold weather rider so the bike gets filled in the fall, sometimes, based on whether or not I plan to pull the tank for maintenance. But to your question, yes, I add fuel system cleaner like Star Tron or Berryman's to my truck in the fall b/c it's mostly just sat as the miles are added to the bike all summer.

Vice versa cleaner in the bike in the spring as it has definitely sat all winter (usually Nov-Mar) without running.

In both cases I do not just routinely add cleaner. I'll dump it in when I have a long-ish trip that day and I know I'll be able to run it through in one shot.
 

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I add seafoam to anything that will (or might) sit a while without being used......snowblower, mower, rototiller, bikes, old truck, etc.
 
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