FJR Owners Forum banner
  • Hey Everyone! Enter your bike HERE to be a part of this months Bike of the Month Challenge!
1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I went to start my FJR this morning, turned the keys, heard the fuel pump turn on and then stop, pressed the start button for which the started turned the engine over as normal, but it would not fire off. The fuel tank had been low therefore I have wondered if water vapor had condensed and wet the plugs. I have pulled the plugs, which have some black around bottom threads and terminal, but not loaded with carbon or gunk. I will drain the little gas in the tank, fill with new, put in new plugs and see if it will start.

Any ideas or similar experiences and fixes would be appreciated. The bike has 16,000 miles on it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
698 Posts
How's the battery condition?
 
  • Like
Reactions: passx

·
Registered
2016 FJR1300ES
Joined
·
35 Posts
How's the battery condition?
A cheap battery will do exactly that when the sediment reservoir on the bottom of the battery allows the sulphate sediments to build up to a point where they short out the plates in the cell. As a result the output voltage drops and as does the current output, under load. One minute it works and then the battery fails to drive the starter. Also check your main ground return for corrosion which will cause a high resistance short and cause the same symptom. Hope that helps you.
 

·
Registered
2016 FJR1300ES
Joined
·
35 Posts
A cheap battery will do exactly that when the sediment reservoir on the bottom of the battery allows the sulphate sediments to build up to a point where they short out the plates in the cell. As a result the output voltage drops and as does the current output, under load. One minute it works and then the battery fails to drive the starter. Also check your main ground return for corrosion which will cause a high resistance short and cause the same symptom. Hope that helps you.
A cheap battery will do exactly that when the sediment reservoir on the bottom of the battery allows the sulphate sediments to build up to a point where they short out the plates in the cell. As a result the output voltage drops and as does the current output, under load. One minute it works and then the battery fails to drive the starter. Also check your main ground return for corrosion which will cause a high resistance short and cause the same symptom. Hope that helps you.
sorry my bad I jumped to the wrong conclusion .
 

·
Premium Member
Versys 1000, VFR800
Joined
·
9,561 Posts
Start with the easy one, fresh fuel or add some Seafoam to take care of any water in it......
The other thing that will cause hard starting is if you did not let it warm up sufficiently when you last started it, and shut if off too early....... the ECU still thinks it needs enriched mode...... always warm up until at least the fast idle comes off or a little longer or a coolant temperature of about 90-100F. If that's a problem in future, wide open throttle while cranking....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Start with the easy one, fresh fuel or add some Seafoam to take care of any water in it......
The other thing that will cause hard starting is if you did not let it warm up sufficiently when you last started it, and shut if off too early....... the ECU still thinks it needs enriched mode...... always warm up until at least the fast idle comes off or a little longer or a coolant temperature of about 90-100F. If that's a problem in future, wide open throttle while cranking....
Great point. That’s exactly what happened. I I’ll hold the throttle open and see what at she does.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
On the hard starting issue, here’s my question for the knowledgeable on this forum. I have an 05 and it has a fairly new battery but bad always done this. Example: I rode home from work today 13 miles stopped to get gas, then when I went to start it it drug really hard and then wouldn’t start after one or two more tries. Pushed out to get it started & rode home one more mile turned it off in the garage tried to restart it & it fired right up. I’ve noticed this with the FJR since I got it & saw talk at one point here but I couldn’t find the thread it was in. Question is: what is causing this or is it just because it takes a lot to crank these beasts over?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
FJR1300A 2008
Joined
·
1,871 Posts
Great point. That’s exactly what happened. I I’ll hold the throttle open and see what at she does.
Johnstoneturbo,

If you did a cold shut-down, it can take an insane amount of cranking, Wide Open Throttle, to convince the engine to start. Prevention is the only cure; in the future, always let the engine warm up fully before you shut it down.
 

·
Registered
FJR1300A 2008
Joined
·
1,871 Posts
On the hard starting issue, here’s my question for the knowledgeable on this forum. I have an 05 and it has a fairly new battery but bad always done this. Example: I rode home from work today 13 miles stopped to get gas, then when I went to start it it drug really hard and then wouldn’t start after one or two more tries. Pushed out to get it started & rode home one more mile turned it off in the garage tried to restart it & it fired right up. I’ve noticed this with the FJR since I got it & saw talk at one point here but I couldn’t find the thread it was in. Question is: what is causing this or is it just because it takes a lot to crank these beasts over?
Tuffy,

What you wrote is hard to decipher, but if I understand the problem, dirty battery cable ends can be one cause for slow starts one time, and normal starts later. Clean the cable ends shiny-bright, and maybe get new bolts, too. Each battery cable has two ends.

Beyond that, things can get complicated. Keep us posted.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,654 Posts
Start with the easy one, fresh fuel or add some Seafoam to take care of any water in it......
The other thing that will cause hard starting is if you did not let it warm up sufficiently when you last started it, and shut if off too early....... the ECU still thinks it needs enriched mode...... always warm up until at least the fast idle comes off or a little longer or a coolant temperature of about 90-100F. If that's a problem in future, wide open throttle while cranking....
That has happened to me once since I have owned my FJR. It's a good thing I read about that here, because I was getting ready to freak.
 

·
Premium Member
Versys 1000, VFR800
Joined
·
9,561 Posts
On the hard starting issue, here’s my question for the knowledgeable on this forum. I have an 05 and it has a fairly new battery but bad always done this. Example: I rode home from work today 13 miles stopped to get gas, then when I went to start it it drug really hard and then wouldn’t start after one or two more tries. Pushed out to get it started & rode home one more mile turned it off in the garage tried to restart it & it fired right up. I’ve noticed this with the FJR since I got it & saw talk at one point here but I couldn’t find the thread it was in. Question is: what is causing this or is it just because it takes a lot to crank these beasts over?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That baby is aging and maybe this applies to you....... have a read from a recent thread..... and yes, have a good battery and good connections. Spark plug wires have been tugged on for how many plug changes and during service, etc.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
247 Posts
On the hard starting issue, here’s my question for the knowledgeable on this forum. I have an 05 and it has a fairly new battery but bad always done this. Example: I rode home from work today 13 miles stopped to get gas, then when I went to start it it drug really hard and then wouldn’t start after one or two more tries. Pushed out to get it started & rode home one more mile turned it off in the garage tried to restart it & it fired right up. I’ve noticed this with the FJR since I got it & saw talk at one point here but I couldn’t find the thread it was in. Question is: what is causing this or is it just because it takes a lot to crank these beasts over?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If memory serves Gen Is occasionally had starters that didn't age well. After many cycles they would draw a lot, especially when hot as in your case at a short gas stop but maybe not so much after a long lunch. A so-so battery might fail you here and replacing it with a new one might overcome this but you'd just be masking the issue. I can remember some write-ups seeing them apart and being refurbed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
If memory serves Gen Is occasionally had starters that didn't age well. After many cycles they would draw a lot, especially when hot as in your case at a short gas stop but maybe not so much after a long lunch. A so-so battery might fail you here and replacing it with a new one might overcome this but you'd just be masking the issue. I can remember some write-ups seeing them apart and being refurbed.
That’s what I thought about a year ago when I bought this one, which was oem replacement not a cheap one. I keep it on a trickle charger so I figure maybe there’s something else going on or that can be corrected.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
247 Posts
You're talking about the battery right? That's still the original starter in there?

Did a little looking around and I wasn't misremembering. (Always like using that word.) A leaking oil seal is mentioned often. After testing the draw while starting when hot it seems a few went through the rebuild process. And just to make more work for you if removing the starter is in your future and you're due for a valve check it might be a convenient time to do that also.

All that said though checking the connections etc would be the first thing. Eliminate as much as possible before ripping things apart.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
46 Posts
You're talking about the battery right? That's still the original starter in there?

Did a little looking around and I wasn't misremembering. (Always like using that word.) A leaking oil seal is mentioned often. After testing the draw while starting when hot it seems a few went through the rebuild process. And just to make more work for you if removing the starter is in your future and you're due for a valve check it might be a convenient time to do that also.

All that said though checking the connections etc would be the first thing. Eliminate as much as possible before ripping things apart.
Yes it’s more than likely the original starter, I bought it at 63k it has about 85k on it now, so more than likely it’s original. As far as rebuild or that kind of maintenance it’s not my strength but then again I’ve learned alot since getting this thing. But it’s all been worth it for sure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Premium Member
Versys 1000, VFR800
Joined
·
9,561 Posts
Yep, seems Gen1 had more starter issues than later Gens, however, to remove the starter, you have to remove the airbox and throttle bodies.... most of the time all they need is a cleanup due to weepage of oil past the end seal.
Before you take that starter apart, ensure that you mark the housings so you don't get the rotation wrong/off position. There may be the original marking still visible, but if not, just draw some lines with a magic marker.....
The middle part is the permanent magnets, if they are off 90 degrees for example, the starter will run backwards. No harm, but oops, the engine won't turn over because correct rotation engages the starter clutch.

Oil can contaminate the brushes and commutator, crud can build up in the little grooves... clean them all out. You can test that none are shorted... which may happen if you leave a failing starter too long and things start to melt...... fun little job that will take you all afternoon, lol. I screwed up the rotation on one, and I had to take the starter out (throttle bodies, etc.) three times.... never too old to screw up it seems, lol. I did all that in one day. I am an expert at getting throttle bodies off now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tuffy1982

·
Registered
2014 FJR-A
Joined
·
80 Posts
I once had an '05 that started having similar symptoms at about 85K miles. Sometimes the starter would turn slow when hot, and sometimes even after a longer stop when the engine was merely warm, and even sometimes when cold if it spun more than 5 - 6 seconds. Gave me a scare one time when about 1000 miles from home. Went straight to a battery shop and got a new battery installed. Problem was back the next day.
Finally removed the starter and took it to a starter / generator shop (those are getting harder to find these days) were he put it on the test bench and spun it. At first the starter drew about 20 amps, but after about 5 - 6 seconds it jumped up to about 75 amp draw. No scooter battery can supply that much current. Disassembled the starter and found the bearings were bone dry, everything else was good. Just took a few seconds spinning to heat up the bearings and seize the armature.
After a little cleaning and lubing the bearings, the starter would spin indefinitely drawing only about 20 amps. Cost about $40. Put the starter back in the scooter and never had any more trouble until the day I sold it with 115K miles.

YMMV

dan

Lets just say I was testing the bounds of reality. -- Jim Morrison
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
That has happened to me once since I have owned my FJR. It's a good thing I read about that here, because I was getting ready to freak.
Thanks for your post. I followed your advice and the bike started. I let it run up to full operating temp before shutting it off. In between I did
Johnstoneturbo,

If you did a cold shut-down, it can take an insane amount of cranking, Wide Open Throttle, to convince the engine to start. Prevention is the only cure; in the future, always let the engine warm up fully before you shut it down.
Today I followed your advice and the bike started. I let it run up to full operating temp before shutting off. Thanks so much for the info. Regards
 

·
Registered
2016 ES gun metal silver
Joined
·
62 Posts
This is an interesting thread, I have never heard of an engine trapped in a cold start cycle. Are we sure it doesn't reset as you'd expect it to? In case I misunderstand, I often back the bike out of the garage for a wash. When finished I start it up, and drive it back into the garage. My driveway has a slope. If I understand correctly, my engine is not getting up to operating temperature and so would be trapped in this cold start cycle. I have the 2016 ES. Can someone confirm if the issue is common, or only on some bikes? I've never had an issue starting, but the bike is fairly new to me.
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top