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Coolant/antifreeze question

33K views 59 replies 23 participants last post by  jasonm. 
#1 · (Edited)
Was about to change the coolant and according to the 'how to' on the other site, it says to use antifreeze that is phosphate and silicate free. I have the regular blue ethelene glycol antifreeze at work here. I contacted the manufacturer and they confirmed that it was free of those chemicals but when I told them that it was for my FJR, they said that that bike uses HOAT antifreeze (Note: Not OAT, but HOAT), which they cannot supply. I googled for HOAT antifreeze and came up with a link that says it is not availible in the UK, only the US so WTF am I supposed to use?

I was thinking Ethelene glycol with demineralised water should be good enough shouldn't it? I'll be changing it every year anyway.

HOAT antifrezze imported from the USA plus distilled water at about a tenner a gallon seems a bit over the top. Also, if HOAT is not availible in the UK, what are the dealers using? Not magic Yamawhatever, surely?
 
#3 ·
Was about to change the coolant and according to the 'how to' on the other site, it says to use antifreeze that is phosphate and silicate free. I have the regular blue ethelene glycol antifreeze at work here. I contacted the manufacturer and they confirmed that it was free of those chemicals but when I told them that it was for my FJR, they said that that bike uses HOAT antifreeze (Note: Not OAT, but HOAT), which they cannot supply. I googled for HOAT antifreeze and came up with a link that says it is not availible in the UK, only the US so WTF am I supposed to use?

I was thinking Ethelene glycol with demineralised water should be good enough shouldn't it? I'll be changing it every year anyway.

HOAT antifrezze imported from the USA plus distilled water at about a tenner a gallon seems a bit over the top. Also, if HOAT is not availible in the UK, what are the dealers using? Not magic Yamawhatever, surely?
in ' Normal ' use
antifreeze used in most vehicles will last several years w/o
degradation........ few recommending change as often as you mention

there is a broad spectrum of automotive vehicles manufactured in the UK
they may ALL use the same type a result of legislation / environment

i would certainly ask your yamaha dealer
& several other marques

Zerex is a readily recognizable brand & they make both types

I prefer Shell
they have an enviable track record with many marques internationally
odd they might Not be available in the UK
 
#4 · (Edited)
As I understand it HOAT, is just OAT with silicates added. Anyone see any problems with using this:

http://www.granvilleoil.co.uk/pdfTechData2.php?ptdID=139

Obviously I'll flush every last drop of the old stuff out and flush with demineralised water although that one is supposed to be okay even with 'hard' water. If okay, what concentration? 50/50?

Edit: Just found my Haynes FJR workshop manual and all it states under coolant type is: 50% Distilled water, 50% silicate free corrosion inhibited ethelyne glycol anti-freeze.

So, answered my own question!
 
#5 ·
DO NOT use anything with silicates. They can create problems with your cooling pump and other bits.

Silicate free. Distilled water (it's $1 a gallon at the store here).

Honda pre-mix is good too and already has the distilled water in it.

Keep the minerals and silicates out to avoid the abrasiveness.

Changing it every other year should be fine. When you to your clutch and brake fluid, use it as a reminder to also do the coolant.
 
#7 ·
Grrrr. Had it parked outside work today, just gone to go home and I've turned the key too far off and my park lights have been on all day. Battery flat now. :(
 
#8 · (Edited)
DuhHuh. Good job noob :p.

Lots of folks recommend the 50/50 mix of whatever coolant. I prefer the concentrate and mixing it myself as one gallon of concentrate + 1 gallon of distilled water = 2 complete coolant changes. Why? B/C you will never ever "flush every last drop of the old stuff out" so I do a change, put a thousand mileson it and change again. makes for a good 20 minute kill on a rainy day. DO NOT use "demineralised water [or] 'hard' water". You don't want any of that stuff in your engine, ever! DISTILLED water only! Really, why would you want to voluntarily, even willingly introduce the nasties into your engine?
 
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#9 ·
Sorry to disappoint but I'm going with demineralised. This one from one of our major car parts suppliers: http://www.halfords.com/motoring/bu...ery-chargers/halfords-battery-top-up-water-5l. It says its suitable for engines. The smallest quantity of Distilled water I can buy in the UK is 10 litres and that's going to cost me $36.53 and I'm not prepared to pay that. I can get the antifreeze for nothing and the water for practically nothing. I can't see what harm it can do. After all, how many in here shy away from using Yamalube in their engines and are using all sorts - dino, semi and fully synthetic, Rotella........ Anyone's engine blown up yet? I bet plenty on here use plain water in their bike and car engines. Anyone reported problems because I cannot recall reading of any. I phoned up the Yamaha dealer that I bought the bike from and they said they DO NOT use Yamaha coolant - they happened to use Motul. If MamaYama had her way, she'd have you filling up with nothing other than officially branded and overpriced products - including Yamafuel no doubt! I'll honestly report back if I encounter any problems.
 
#13 ·
+1

Some number of years ago I dug around for alternatives - ie, who runs what, what's safe, what's compatible, blah, blah... I spent probably 20+ hours researching, and never really felt comfortable with any standard auto-parts-store coolant available.

Then I realized my local shop had the Honda premix for about $5.50 per quart, and suddenly that $17 bottle of 50/50 plus distilled water and all made less sense in a hurry.

I haven't looked back since - all my bikes get the Honda premix when I flush & replace, now.

On a related note, I read somewhere that the one-gallon Honda-branded "automotive* premix jugs at your Honda car dealer is actually the same stuff, and might be cheaper and/or easier than finding the motorcycle-labeled stuff. I never actually bought/tried any though and the story may or may not be correct.

<edit> OBTW, that $5.50 price seems long gone, it's more like $8/quart now at the same dealer. But still, after that experience, I "just do it" and not worry.
 
#19 ·
I found it interesting that the owner's manual for my Mercedes says that their speced antifreeze is good for 15 years. So what's with this short change period for our motorcycles?
 
#20 · (Edited)
There is demineralized, deionized, and distilled water (please excuse the spelling). They are all pretty close to being the same. You want something that doesn't have crap in it. Something as close to pure H2O as possible. Ions are charged particles that can plate out on engine parts. Minerals can be ions or just chemicals that also can leave deposits. All of the the above are close to being pure H2O but achieved by different methods. Probably doesn't matter which one you use.

P.S. - I agree on the Engine Ice with Bounce. IIRC it is propylene glycol. Not much difference between ethylene and propylene glycol except ethylene will kill your dog and propylene will just make them sick.
 
#27 ·
While Engine Ice may be designed for the track, I like it because it is non-toxic and requires no special disposal procedures. I have run it in my last two bikes each with 30k miles each with no visible degrading of the coolant. Unlike regular coolant, if you spill Engine Ice, there is no need to call a hazmat team, means a lot to me.
IMHO, trying to figure out which automotive coolant is safe to use in the FJR is a waste of time. Just go with a motorcycle specific coolant and end your worries.
 
#28 ·
Interesting specs on coolant types:

PQIA Quick Reference Chart

The FJR1300 Haynes Manual specifies (for all years) "Slicate-free corrosion inhibited ethylene glycol anti-freeze."

So using the chart, that eliminates IAT, SHOAT, OAT, SOAT, HOAT, and possibly PHOAT type coolants. The only thing left is the Dex-cool type.

I'm somewhat skeptical that all those types would be harmful since several are recommended specifically for Asian cars. But I think I'll use Dex-cool.
 
#30 · (Edited)
The FJR1300 Haynes Manual specifies (for all years) "Slicate-free corrosion inhibited ethylene glycol anti-freeze."
This was a surprise to me since I've never seen anywhere the words "Silicate-free" in any coolant specification for the FJR. The Haynes book index sends me to 3-1 which sends me to that statement on pg 0-12 which says,

"Use only the specified coolant mixture of 50% distilled water and 50% corrosion inhibited ethylene glycol anti-freeze..."

Additionally, the factory service manual says as pictured below. IMHO you've erroneously eliminated many good, high quality, time tested & proven coolants. I have no problems with Dex-Cool if, as mentioned, do a good flush prior to use and maintain/replace regularly.

In a more recent thread -> https://www.fjrowners.com/forums/9-fjr-technical/145889-coolant-gushing-out.html, I posted my opinion as,

IMHO:

- if in doubt, buy the factory stuff from your local Yamaha dealer. Can't go wrong that way.

- if you choose to NOT use OE coolant, what I did:

- drain coolant per FSM, refill with straight distilled water. Run about 100 miles.
- drain again, wash out overflow, refill with your coolant of choice.

There's an old procedure called "The Coolant Blowjob". Completely unnecessary IMO, I never did it. Some folks remove hoses, etc., I do not. Simply drain & slowly refill. I also remove and wash out the overflow reservoir. I found it gets cloudy if I don't.

I replace mine yearly which is probably huge overkill for most people. But I also spent many hrs on dirt roads in western NC every yr at elevated rpm and engine temps. I'm hard on it so I choose to do it more often.

I use Dex-Cool.
 

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#29 ·
And what was wrong with the Haynes recommendation? There is nothing at all wrong with ethylene glycol suitable with aluminum engines, get the long life type that you'll only need to change at valve check intervals. If going Dex-Cool, flush thoroughly first, it has a slight tendency to gel, especially when mixed with other coolants.
 
#31 ·
Okay, I see there are two different recommendations in the Haynes manual. On page 0-2, in the text, it says "corrosion inhibited ethylene glycol" and on page 1-2 under Specifications it says "slicate-free corrosion inhibited ethylene glycol". So that conflict kind of opens things up.
 
#32 ·
I don't like the idea of having to do a flush. I think I'll just bite the bullet and spend more and get the Yamacool. Proably a waste of twenty dollars, but worth the piece of mind to me.
 
#35 ·
On my Gen2, I remove the 4 dash panels, the 2 side vent panels, and the 2 lower cowlings (the triangle behind the front wheel comes with one of them). Why so much? Well, the dash panels on the left have to come off to access the radiator cap so the right ones have to come off to get the left ones off. The left cowling comes off to access the overflow reservoir for old fluid removal and cleaning. Might as well take the right cowling off, it's only a few more screws/rivets, then all the plastics get a wash and wax before going back on. That part is way easier when the parts are off the bike for a decrepit old geezer with a bad hip like mine. Plus I do a few other things while there- raise the fuel tank for spark plug replacement, inspect & goop ground spiders & connectors, check TBS if desired, check rubber caps for dry rot, etc. I usually just make a day of it and get as much basic stuff done as possible then put it all back together and forget it until next year.

Note I said mine is a Gen2. There have always been mucho complaints about the plastics removal on the Gen3 like yours. But if IMHO if you're going to be doing your own maintenance you might as well get used to the plastics now.
 
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#37 ·
My situation is an FJR bought used. So did previous owner use a silicated coolant? If so, I read it could gel when mixed with a POAT antifreeze! I see most Asian cars, and logically Asian built bikes, were built for Phosphate Organic Acid Technology coolants which do NOT have silicates: Honda Type 2, Pentofrost A3, Prestone Asian Blue, etc. The PQIA chart does NOT say POAT has silicates. So logically to me, if I bought a low mileage FJR, it would still have YamaCool in it . . . without silicates, and I could use any POAT. I reference also the Haynes Manual comment about silicates, info on BikeBandit.com that silicates should not be used in motorcycles. BTW: these POATs are also ethylene glycol based; Pentofrost website states NO silicates.
 
#39 ·
No need to overthink it! Hoe Lee Crap, it's just not that complicated. If someone were as "thoughtful and concerned" [anal ;-)] as your post implies, take the easy way out. What I would do:

materials required:
1 gallon distilled water
1 gallon Yamaha coolant, premixed

procedure:
Drain coolant, including overflow bottle. Clean overflow bottle with dish detergent, rinse thoroughly. Very slowly refill system with distilled water and overflow to about 1" above high mark. Let bike idle until fans come on, shut off and let cool completely. Ride about a hundred miles.

Repeat, only this time refill with coolant. Can't go wrong with what the mfr supplies.

And that's that. As I side note, I do not give a crap about OATS, POATS, Mares eating oats or little lambs eating ivy. If you know what's in it, use it. If you don't know what's in it, start afresh and use that. Otherwise, your post reminds me of a very old saying, "Paralysis by analysis ...."
 
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