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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-14-2020, 08:47 AM
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Our fleet of GSA vehicles were often badged as "Flex Fuel" compatible. In the paperwork we signed and carried each time we checked one out, it barred us from using E15 or E85. They never gave a reason.
Usually it's b/c people are not accustomed to using higher ethanol blends. My F150 Flex Fuel owners manual recommends not mixing and matching much. Use E10 or E15/E85 and if you're going to switch over either way to do so with the fuel tank(s) as empty as possible.

I've tried the higher blends mostly out of curiosity as to why they're cheaper. Because the fuel mileage suffers, that's why. I get 15-25% less with E85 so the cost savings up front are negated by buying fuel more often.

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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-14-2020, 08:59 AM
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The flex fuel thing is really a big expense in the long run, the fuel is initially cheaper but you pay for it in lower economy and parts costs, I know from my time at the parts store the “flex fuel” parts like the fuel pumps are way more expensive, I’m assuming because of their ability to flow a lot more fuel to compensate for the lower btu content in the e10, e15 and e85 fuels.

E10 & E15 really not so much but the e85 probably requires the ability to flow up to about 40% more to meet the proper a/f ratios at the oxygen sensors. The flex fuel pump for my new-to-me 15 Impala is nearly $500 versus standard non flex pump at about $85, big difference.

Luckily our fjr’s seem to work just fine on the e10 & e15 but I would not use e85 in one, I need to look in the owners manual to see if Yamaha even says it’s ok or not but I’m pretty sure not.
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-14-2020, 09:10 AM
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The flex fuel thing is really a big expense in the long run, the fuel is initially cheaper but you pay for it in lower economy and parts costs, I know from my time at the parts store the flex fuel parts like the fuel pumps are way more expensive, Im assuming because of their ability to flow a lot more fuel to compensate for the lower btu content in the e10, e15 and e85 fuels.

E10 & E15 really not so much but the e85 probably requires the ability to flow up to about 40% more to meet the proper a/f ratios at the oxygen sensors. The flex fuel pump for my new-to-me 15 Impala is nearly $500 versus standard non flex pump at about $85, big difference.

Luckily our fjrs seem to work just fine on the e10 & e15 but I would not use e85 in one, I need to look in the owners manual to see if Yamaha even says its ok or not but Im pretty sure not.
IIRC the MOM states what's recommended, not all the things not to do .

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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-14-2020, 09:34 AM
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So Russ, since youre looking at it, what does mother Yamaha recommend specifically ?

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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-14-2020, 03:27 PM
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Our fleet of GSA vehicles were often badged as "Flex Fuel" compatible. In the paperwork we signed and carried each time we checked one out, it barred us from using E15 or E85. They never gave a reason.
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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-14-2020, 03:59 PM
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Usually it's b/c people are not accustomed to using higher ethanol blends. My F150 Flex Fuel owners manual recommends not mixing and matching much. Use E10 or E15/E85 and if you're going to switch over either way to do so with the fuel tank(s) as empty as possible.
2018 F-150 Owner's Manual states:

Switching Between E85 and Gasoline

We do not recommend repeatedly alternating between E85 and gasoline. If you switch from using E85 to gasoline, or from gasoline to E85, add as much fuel as possible, at least half a tank. Drive your vehicle immediately for a minimum of 5 mi (8 km) to allow it to adapt to the change in ethanol concentration. If you use E85 exclusively, we recommend that you fill the fuel tank with regular unleaded gasoline at each scheduled oil change.
Ford seems to be saying one should run the engine long enough "to adapt to the change in ethanol concentration" before turning the engine off. Guessing this is for the engine to know what fuel it is starting with next time the vehicle is driven. Operation will not be optimal during the transition so one should not pester the poor ECU by changing fuel every tank. And that if it shuts down with E10 and starts with E85 the ECU could be confused as all heck running lean.

If the first E85 is a half tank and one purchases E85 from then on it will take several tanks before the tank reaches 85% ethanol. So the ECU will be continuously adjusting. Then complicate the issue noting E85 must have at least 70% ethanol, no more than 85%, so you don't really know how much you are getting. All things considered Ford is saying do what you have to but please don't ping pong extremes as a regular practice.

The observation on Ecoboost forums is Ecoboost tolerates 30% but problems start with more than that. The Ecoboost is not FFV. My F-150 is 2.7L Ecoboost.

The very first FFVs had an inline ethanol sensor to know when ethanol was coming and approximate concentration. Later found the ECU could detect as good or better so the ethanol sensor was deleted.

I had a 2001 GMC Sonoma 2.2L which was one of the first FFVs. Never put E85 in it. Owner's manual doubled the frequency of all engine maintenance items for E85. 3750 miles for oil change, half the life of spark plugs, etc. I don't see any difference in F-150 maintenance schedule for E10 vs E85.

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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-14-2020, 04:00 PM
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So Russ, since youre looking at it, what does mother Yamaha recommend specifically ?
attached, from my MOM
Attached Images
File Type: jpg gasohol.JPG (26.9 KB, 15 views)

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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-14-2020, 09:45 PM
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Wow, Russ,that’s really interesting, thanks, never would have thought that. I guess I didn’t realize that they were making gasohol with methanol. Surprised that they don’t use it because it has more btu’s of energy per gallon vs ethanol. The problem with the methanol that it tends to be highly corrosive. But you can make methanol out of just about anything like garbage or sewage, ethanol is pretty much corn based and less corrosive.

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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-15-2020, 09:33 AM
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I don't think I've ever seen a pump dispensing methanol gas.

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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 07-15-2020, 10:47 AM
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Methanol at the racetrack... gotta be careful with it... prolly not safe for joe consumer to use at the pump..
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