Ethanol treatment - Page 5 - Yamaha FJR Forum : Yamaha FJR Owners Forums
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post #41 of 85 (permalink) Old 07-09-2020, 07:18 AM
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@RaYzerman I remember the old days of my Honda 750 punched 836 with K&N pod air filters. The bike ran SO strong in the fog or a misty rain.

I got to tell you this is starting to sound a bit like an oil thread! @the Ferret is right the best solution is to ride more so the gas doesn’t sit.

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post #42 of 85 (permalink) Old 07-09-2020, 10:06 AM
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@RaYzerman I remember the old days of my Honda 750 punched 836 with K&N pod air filters. The bike ran SO strong in the fog or a misty rain.
Water injection is an old hotrodder's trick for knock suppression on lower octane rated fuels. Also used on allied aircraft during WW-II.

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post #43 of 85 (permalink) Old 07-09-2020, 10:15 AM
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Airplanes don't have steel tanks. They are either integral to the wing and made of aluminum or they are rubber bladders. Water has a minimal affect on either. Most aircraft also have gascolators that will trap any water that doesn't get drained during preflight. Airplanes that sit outside are more prone to water intrusion because the filler caps are on the top of the wing.
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post #44 of 85 (permalink) Old 07-10-2020, 02:51 PM
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Sea foam!!! Works great, and you can often find it on sale!!
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post #45 of 85 (permalink) Old 07-10-2020, 03:48 PM
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Airplanes don't have steel tanks. They are either integral to the wing and made of aluminum or they are rubber bladders. Water has a minimal affect on either. Most aircraft also have gascolators that will trap any water that doesn't get drained during preflight. Airplanes that sit outside are more prone to water intrusion because the filler caps are on the top of the wing.
Steel, aluminum, rubber, doesn't matter to condensation. Temperature and fresh moist air is the source. The concern is not over possible damage to the fuel tank but whether the engine functions the way it is expected to perform.

No trap can catch water dissolved in ethanol. That is why aircraft are exempt from the RFS (Renewable Fuel Standard). Gasoline diluted with ethanol is not reliable. No quantity of additives will change that else the do-gooders would not have allowed aircraft to escape from their good deeds.

The problem is how "ethanol treatments" don't do anything about ethanol. Only increases the fuel's capacity to carry water which is the problem in the first place. Pure gasoline does not carry water. Water can easily removed from pure gasoline but the "treatment" for ethanol-laced gasoline is to add more chemicals to increase the amount of water it can carry in suspension.

Filler caps on top are a source of moisture? Aircraft are parked out in the rain. Flown in the rain. Sometimes find themselves upside down in flight. Your FJR filler cap is styled after an aviation filler cap, only not as robust.

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post #46 of 85 (permalink) Old 07-10-2020, 04:18 PM
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My FJR cap is way more robust then most GA aircraft fuel caps. Have you ever heard of the Cessna killer caps and the FAA SAIB to address the issue?
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post #47 of 85 (permalink) Old 07-10-2020, 08:50 PM
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I always thought Av gas was ethanol free and 100-ish octane........

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post #48 of 85 (permalink) Old 07-10-2020, 09:54 PM
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I always thought Av gas was ethanol free and 100-ish octane........
Nah, man. 87 pump gas and seafoam.
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post #49 of 85 (permalink) Old 07-10-2020, 10:17 PM
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Avgas is 100 LL (low lead). There are a few places to get 87 but it's pretty rare. You cannot legally use E gas in an aircraft.
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post #50 of 85 (permalink) Old 07-11-2020, 09:57 AM
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Certain aircraft fuel cap types are prone to admitting rainwater if the o-rings deteriorate a bit or the cap doesn't fit tightly. For example I once had some friends with a Cessna Cardinal (177B) that acquired copious amounts of water in both tanks every time we had a significant rain. It's also a problem when refueling in the rain. It's less of a problem flying in the rain because the low pressure over the top of the wing and movement through the air actually can suck stuff out of the wing. This has been illustrated multiple times by guys leaving a fuel cap off after refueling only to have fuel sucked out of the tank(s) through the filler port.


That said, in my experience the business of condensation forming inside a tank isn't a given. I leave my tanks (2 @ 20 gal, rigid aluminum) as they are after a flight, with lots of air inside. For 5 of its 18 years it was tied down outside, the rest in hangars. In all that time the total amount of water I've ever seen checking the sump and tank drains wouldn't fill a shot glass. The plane does have a more elaborate venting mechanism than commonly found, so this might be a factor.


As far as my ground vehicles (bikes, cars, trucks) I don't do anything to deal with the "evils" of ethanol and they all run just fine. My infrequently used devices (generator weed-whacker, chain saw) do get a dose of Stabil in their fuel cans, but that's it.
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Last edited by Rich Doyle; 07-11-2020 at 10:22 AM.
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