HELLLLP!!! 2009 wont start - Yamaha FJR Forum : Yamaha FJR Owners Forums
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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-24-2020, 04:38 PM Thread Starter
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HELLLLP!!! 2009 wont start

This is the kind of day...week, I've been having. Bike is all packed up and about to leave on a cross-country trip and....it wont start. Just clicks. Even when hooked up with cables to a big battery. So, leading up to this I was working on some electrical stuff in the battery compartment area. May have let the battery drain a little too low. When I went to start it, it didn't catch and I could hear the juice dwindling. To impatient to hook up a trickle charger and wait, I just kept my finger on the button until finally...the solenoid kicked in. I retried. Of course, it sounded even weaker this time before the solenoid kicked in. Ultimately, pushing the starter button did nothing but make a SINGLE click (not a continuous one like normal with a weak battery). So, I popped open the thing and hooked it up to jumpers and still...one click. I'm thinking the relay is shot or the starter is shot. I can't even find the dang relay and dont know what side the starter is on.

I need some FAST and detailed advice on how to trouble shoot this. Bypass the relay? give it a tap? test the starter? How? Guess I should be happy this happened in my garage.

I'm desperate and I need help. Please.
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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-24-2020, 04:57 PM
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Lesson #1- never EVER work on anything for 2 to 3 weeks prior to a trip.

Charge your battery completely. Replace it if needed. Quick and easy- Honda dealers normally keep what you need on the shelf, call around. Westco, not the best but it'll do the job for 2 yrs easy. Mine was $68.

Russ
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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-24-2020, 04:57 PM
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Sure your getting a good connection with the Cables? I know I jumped mine once and had to take a couple racks at it to get a good connection, then it turned over fine. Nonetheless even if you start, get a new battery before taking off on your road trip, they tend to fail at weird times on road trips, from personal experience!

Ron

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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-24-2020, 05:24 PM Thread Starter
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Just a bit of an update...
Push started the bike. Ran fine. Shut off and same thing when trying to start.
Put in new battery...just makes one click when pushing the starter.
Located the relay and checked both 30 amp fuses - fine.
I did notice the both the red and black heavy gauge wires attached to the relay. The red one is a short length wire right to the battery but the black one sneaks underneath. I thought at first the black wire would go straight to the starter from the relay and in effect was the +ve input...in other words, the relay is a switch in the path of the red wire from the battery to the starter. That doesnt appear to be the case since when I attached a multimeter that the black heavy gauge wire comes direct from the battery. With the bike ignition off, the is 12 Volts across the two terminals at the relay. That surprised me. Makes me wonder how the positive lead from the battery arrives to the starter.
Anyway, no other progress than that.
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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-24-2020, 05:40 PM Thread Starter
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OMG - I just saw what it takes to change the starter. I'm F***'ed
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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-24-2020, 06:42 PM
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Let's start over... yes the starter is buried and you have to remove the throttle bodies to get it out. May not have to... how many miles on this thing?
First, battery... must be fully charged, resting voltage should be at least 12.8, after fully charging may be higher. How old is the battery?

Connection issues... remove cables from battery posts, clean (even if they look that way), put them all back nice and snug. Next remove the two cables from the starter relay, clean them and put them back... the 30 amp fuse goes to the ABS pump, no worries. The black does feed the starter. You can bridge that to test the starter, be careful as usual. Should not be 12V to the black until you have ignition on and press the start button.
If the battery is iffy at all, get a new one for the trip. Starters usually don't fail, just will crank slower (providing battery is good) over time, then have issues.... again, mileage please.
Most bikes use the same starter relay... if in doubt, you should be able to find one.
As far as boosting, ronheater has a point, need good connection.
Keep us posted.


PS - what else electrical were you working on?
TownsendsFJR1300 and 2GENAE like this.

Ray
Keep yer stick on the ice....
2014 FJR1300A - Root Beer (sold)
2009 CBF1000A - Sienna Red
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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-24-2020, 07:51 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaYzerman View Post
Let's start over... yes the starter is buried and you have to remove the throttle bodies to get it out. May not have to... how many miles on this thing?
First, battery... must be fully charged, resting voltage should be at least 12.8, after fully charging may be higher. How old is the battery?

Connection issues... remove cables from battery posts, clean (even if they look that way), put them all back nice and snug. Next remove the two cables from the starter relay, clean them and put them back... the 30 amp fuse goes to the ABS pump, no worries. The black does feed the starter. You can bridge that to test the starter, be careful as usual. Should not be 12V to the black until you have ignition on and press the start button.
If the battery is iffy at all, get a new one for the trip. Starters usually don't fail, just will crank slower (providing battery is good) over time, then have issues.... again, mileage please.
Most bikes use the same starter relay... if in doubt, you should be able to find one.
As far as boosting, ronheater has a point, need good connection.
Keep us posted.


PS - what else electrical were you working on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaYzerman View Post
Let's start over... yes the starter is buried and you have to remove the throttle bodies to get it out. May not have to... how many miles on this thing?
First, battery... must be fully charged, resting voltage should be at least 12.8, after fully charging may be higher. How old is the battery?

Connection issues... remove cables from battery posts, clean (even if they look that way), put them all back nice and snug. Next remove the two cables from the starter relay, clean them and put them back... the 30 amp fuse goes to the ABS pump, no worries. The black does feed the starter. You can bridge that to test the starter, be careful as usual. Should not be 12V to the black until you have ignition on and press the start button.
If the battery is iffy at all, get a new one for the trip. Starters usually don't fail, just will crank slower (providing battery is good) over time, then have issues.... again, mileage please.
Most bikes use the same starter relay... if in doubt, you should be able to find one.
As far as boosting, ronheater has a point, need good connection.
Keep us posted.


PS - what else electrical were you working on?
Thanks for your reply. I need to take a deep breath - been trying. Kind of in a panic.

So your first question - battery and electrical. This is my second battery in as many years. Had been noticing dead battery after a week or two of sitting in the past and poor starting, especially when hot. I couldn't understand how the dang thing would start fine but after stopping to fill with gas, it had trouble. Last night I was swapping the battery for one I had in the FJR previously. I replaced it last fall because I thought it was bad. But, I put in on a re-conditioner and it shows fine. I had 13.1 Volts on it when I installed it last night yet when I went to start the bike this morning... well you know the rest. The other electrical I was doing was cleaning up a sloppy terminal connector that powers a USB port for a phone and an aux LED light.


So, I followed the wires from the battery to the relay and concluded just like you described that the incoming red wire and the outgoing black wire are the +ve feed and that there is a -ve feed to the starter coming directly off the battery. But, as I said, with the ignition on OR off, there is 12V across that terminal. Just to be clear, the relay has two 8mm bolt terminals about 1/4" apart - those two terminals have 12volts across them with the ignition off. It is unchanged even when I disconnect the 4 wire harness on the relay. In my mind, this is telling me (assuming the starter is constantly grounded) that there is current running to the starter even with the key out of the ignition. I don't understand that. I would post a pic of the multimeter if I knew how. Actually, try this:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/13Q5...ew?usp=sharing

So far I have tried:
- removing the fuses on the relay one at a time and restarting. With the fuse on the right gone I heard the same single loud click. With the fuse on the left gone - there was nothing. Both looked good.
- I disconnected all wires from the battery and connected a heavy duty marine battery to the two heavy gauge wires with a really solid set of alligator clips. No diff - just a click.
- with the wires disconnected from any battery, I ran a continuity test from the black terminal wire (left side) on the relay to the black heavy gauge wire from the -ve battery post. This showed a short:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1a9y...ew?usp=sharing

- when I did a continuity test on the other side, it showed no connection (the ignition is off)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1i3c...ew?usp=sharing

Finally, I bit the bullet, disconnected the battery and connected a 12 volt power supply directly to the starter. I put the +ve lead on the black wire going out of the relay and the -ve lead to the heavy gauge wire that connects to the battery. Sparks flew. Fortunately, I had it set to 12 volts and 2 amps and just tapped it.


The only thing I have not done is remove both leads from the relay and try running power to the starter that way. Hmmm, have to think about that. I don't know how it would make a difference.



So, I can't understand whats going on to be frank. I think I'll get a drink

Randy
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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-24-2020, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaYzerman View Post
Let's start over... yes the starter is buried and you have to remove the throttle bodies to get it out. May not have to... how many miles on this thing?
First, battery... must be fully charged, resting voltage should be at least 12.8, after fully charging may be higher. How old is the battery?

Connection issues... remove cables from battery posts, clean (even if they look that way), put them all back nice and snug. Next remove the two cables from the starter relay, clean them and put them back... the 30 amp fuse goes to the ABS pump, no worries. The black does feed the starter. You can bridge that to test the starter, be careful as usual. Should not be 12V to the black until you have ignition on and press the start button.
If the battery is iffy at all, get a new one for the trip. Starters usually don't fail, just will crank slower (providing battery is good) over time, then have issues.... again, mileage please.
Most bikes use the same starter relay... if in doubt, you should be able to find one.
As far as boosting, ronheater has a point, need good connection.
Keep us posted.


PS - what else electrical were you working on?
Exactly what I was going to say ..also hook your multimeter up and view it as you press the starter button .. does it plummet below 11 volts .. because it actually sounds to me that your battery is bad ..can be verified with the volt meter ..take it out and bring it o auto zone they will load test it free ( what I suggested was a poor mans load test )
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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-24-2020, 07:56 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Way8lifter View Post
Exactly what I was going to say ..also hook your multimeter up and view it as you press the starter button .. does it plummet below 11 volts .. because it actually sounds to me that your battery is bad ..can be verified with the volt meter ..take it out and bring it o auto zone they will load test it free ( what I suggested was a poor mans load test )

Stay tuned
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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-24-2020, 08:14 PM Thread Starter
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Okay, so, I went out and disconnected both terminal from the relay. I hooked a +ve lead from an external power source to the black wire from the left side of the relay ( I may have referred to this earlier as the right side by mistake) and hooked the -ve lead from the power source to the negative terminal of the bike's battery. Instant sparks - as in a short. I tried unhooking the wire harness from the relay and got the same result. Just to make sure I wasn't crazy, I hooked the +ve lead from the power source to the lead on the right side of the relay and the -ve lead from the power source to -ve post on the batter. I got weak sparks - like you would see if the battery was charging.
So, going back to my electrical theory days in university, somewhere between the outgoing black wire on the relay (which is really the +ve lead to the starter) and where the starter is connected to ground, there must be a short. That would be the only explanation of a short circuit since the bike itself is now completely isolated from the starter. This makes me wonder how in the **** am I not seeing sparks or smelling smoke when I had all the wires properly connected and hit the start button? If the relay isn't busted and the fuse is good, there should have been 12 volts being sent to the starter everytime I heard the single "click"
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