HELLLLP!!! 2009 wont start - Page 3 - Yamaha FJR Forum : Yamaha FJR Owners Forums
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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-25-2020, 12:19 PM
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All the ones that look the same are the same.... go with 4YR-81940-00-00

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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-27-2020, 01:46 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks again, Rayzer. Haven't decided whether to rebuild or go new with the starter or even whether or not to attempt the job myself. YOu make it look easy. I'll be in Calgary (in my car) in a day and will see if I can source some parts and save a dime on PST. I'm guessing I can get the bike runing fine if I drop in the new relay but the problem will just return if I don't do something about the starter.
We are going to do the trip end of August now.
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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-27-2020, 03:59 AM
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Two of the permanent magnets became detached in the starter on my Gen II and jammed the armature.

They are originally bonded to the outer body of the unit and I believe this failure has happened to other Yams. It is not really that difficult to remove the throttle bodies and get the starter out.

Last edited by fjrlee; 06-27-2020 at 09:05 AM.
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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-27-2020, 06:43 AM
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Another problem I came across, (not related to your starter click, I know) which really had me fooled was that the previous owner had replaced the starter relay but had put it back the wrong way around. My ABS warning light was on all the time when riding but the bike started and ran fine. Because the relay was back to front, the power to the ABS controller was then off when the bike was running.

Last edited by fjrlee; 06-27-2020 at 09:03 AM.
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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-27-2020, 03:13 PM Thread Starter
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Angry

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Originally Posted by fjrlee View Post
Another problem I came across, (not related to your starter click, I know) which really had me fooled was that the previous owner had replaced the starter relay but had put it back the wrong way around. My ABS warning light was on all the time when riding but the bike started and ran fine. Because the relay was back to front, the power to the ABS controller was then off when the bike was running.
Interesting point. Thanks for sharing. This problem I have had over the past several years started slowly by displaying the symptoms of a weak battery when I turned it over. Because my FJR is almost always on the road in a storage unit (I store it, fly home to work, come back and resume my trip then store it in a new location) I haven't had access to battery chargers, tools and the like to carefully take the time to fix the problem. I presumed my weak battery - which may have been only a few months old - was the result of sitting in storage for a couple of months, or the tiny LED light on a aux charger - who knows. When I finally got sick of the battery not being able to start the bike, I'd buy a new one but then it too would last one season at best. However, your point is relevant to me because often my ABS light would come on when starting on a really bad day. That was yet another symptom I found perplexing: how come the bike would seem to start okay when cold but if I stopped for gas after a few hours, it really struggled. I thought maybe it wasn't charging but if that's the case why did my lights work fine or why did it start easier after sitting overnight? Well, it would seem the ABS and starter relay are connected in some way so perhaps my ABS lights coming on during a hard start are in fact related to the starter/relay problem. Anyway, I guess I am going to attempt to do the starter myself. If you guys say that it's not that challenging then why not. I've done all the work on that bike myself so far except the suspension so it shouldn't be that daunting a task. But, I fix my toys like I post replies on forums...long, meticulous and attention to unnecessary details. Just seems of late I spend more time fixing things than playing with them and I expect doing the starter will take me two full days whereas it would take Ray 2 hours. We'll see.
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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-07-2020, 09:13 PM Thread Starter
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Hi again. Well, I took a semi-vacation by car and am home now. Relay is still in the mail so I thought I'd dig in and look at the starter. I've got almost everything off but have run into a snag: I cannot seem to get the injector rail off. The air box came out okay and I've disconnected all electrical plugs and loosened each pair of clamps [eight] that hold the injector body onto the manifold. I've loosened the screws on the clamps almost to the max and the body will not budge. I fear putting anymore force on it as it will be off axis and the only next idea it to pry - which I am equally hesitant to do. What might I be missing?


**UPDATE**
I got it off - I was just being too much of a pu**y
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Last edited by Randy_B; 07-07-2020 at 10:13 PM.
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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-07-2020, 11:21 PM Thread Starter
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So everything is apart and it appears pretty obvious why the starter was acting up:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...Ta?usp=sharing

So Ray ( and others following my saga ), does that starter look like it can be cleaned up and reinstalled? I see the sectors on the commutator? (part where the brushes contact) had a lot of gunk bridging the sectors. I ran my nail down the gap between a pair and it appears that will easily scrape away. I also took some WD-40 to the brushes and housing to clean up all the gunk in there and it came out pretty good even without using a q-tip or something do get all the crud out. The brushes are 9.5 mm long (what the wear limit?).

I did not follow you earlier when you described:

"mark the position of the center (permanent magnets) to the end housings and re-assemble in that exact rotation."

I think you meant make sure the winding goes back in the housing the way it came out. If so, Why? I haven't actually pulled that out yet and don't know if I even need to.

On a different note, I was shocked to see how cruddy my throttle body was (and in general, the entire area, especially sunflower seeds in my air box and engine compartment). Obviously I am going to clean up the butterflies and entire area but I am wondering if there is anything else serviceable in the area. There is a slider rail (in one of the pictures) that has a plunger at the end and it is located on the underside of the assembly. What does this do?

I performed this little procedure several years ago:
https://www.fjrowners.com/forums/9-f...body-sync.html

I was never happy with the result as I didn't really notice a difference but I've lost sleep over the idea that I screwed around with a factory setting that I cannot return to. Is there anything I can do while this is all apart to return it to factory settings?
Anything you happen to notice in the pics that may need attention, feel free to weigh in. My biggest worry is getting the throttle cables back on and adjusted properly.

Thanks everyone.
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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 08:41 AM
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The starter comm can be cleaned up, definitely do not want bridging there. Teeny rub with a Scotchbrite pad, blow out all the dust. Wipe with alcohol, including the brush contact surface... don't do anthing that will change the nice relationship (worn in) the brushes have with the comm.
I hope you can get the magnets back on in the same orientation... if out of rotation 90 degrees, starter will run backwards. Off rotation a bit will change amount of starter draw and starter power. Hope you can find some witness marks that lets you get it back on where it was originally. Bench test it.... if you can't get it back where it was, we'll get into it, you're going to have to bench test to optimal current draw....... once installed, test the starter BEFORE you put the TB's back on DAMHIK.
As for the TBS, I was never a fan. On the bench, use two identical drill bits as gauges, say 1/8". Open throttle, insert drill bit, let throttle plate against it. Adjust the adjacent outboard one to it, gauge with the other drill bit. Do the other pair, then sync the two pairs. I don't know of any other way other than a flow test bench.


Edit Add... on the starter housing, there should be a thin line (marker) where the mfgr. marked it, it may run the entire length of the magnets and will extend onto the end housings.... hope you can still find evidence of that.

Ray
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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 08:52 AM
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Randy, I had a similar deal years ago with a Honda 650 nighthawk where the starter was pretty much junk. what I did was I took it to a local Certified “rebuilder” that rebuilt automotive starters, alternators, water pumps and such and hd them go through it. It wasn’t much more money than just buying a kit (bearings, brush’s, etc.) and doing it myself and l feel they Did a more thorough job than I could have done because of their equipment & experience.

On the unauthorized tbs, if the motor ran better it was a good thing, the unauthorized tbs allows for more/better compensation for cylinder to cylinder variations than the simple bleed screws on the gen 3/3.5 bikes,should be able to get a better result across the entire rpm range, less vibration.

On your airbox, mice seem to just love the fjr airbox for some reason, I feel (no scientific data) that a Oiled k+n air filter seems to keep them out but you still need to check regularly, this reminds me that I need to check mine. Also I’ve added dryer sheets around the bike and used a rodent spray through out my bikes, I will add that all that didn’t keep them out of my 81 cbx where they also like the airbox and the tail section, they stayed out of the freshly cleaned & oiled air filter air box this winter but found home in the tailpiece that’s had a dryer sheet, rodent spray & Irish spring soap. Besides the wiring they munched on the soap as well requiring some repairs this spring.

Good luck, hope you Get to ride soon, I think you’re on the proper path.

Steve P
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Ride more,, worry less !
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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 12:45 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you both for replying. I too am hopeful I can get this done without any more anxiety.

You can ignore what I wrote below as I have moved past that point and it's now several hours later. I reassembled the starter, checked it for play on the bearing and hooked it up to a 12v charger. It seemed to spin fine. Threw a clamp meter on it and it registered 40amp draw. However, I know this thing reads high when reading DC volts. I've got the injector rail on and throttle cables attached and am just taking a break from the garage. Need to look up in the manual adjusting the nuts for the throttle cables. Relay arrived in the mail today too soooo, if you don't hear another update by tonight, I probably F'ed up somewhere.
I guess we need to talk about bench testing before I put this all together.
Just to recap, Ray, since you're my guiding light through this specific task:
I did not remove the armature from the housing nor did I unscrew the plate containing the brushes; I basically just cleaned what I could thoroughly and restored the gaps on the commutator.

There was an alignment mark from the factory on the starter housing but I don't think it's the specific one you refer to as this basically just aligned the end cap with the bearing to the main housing; something to two long bolts do anyway. The only impact reassembly 180 degrees out would do is result in the battery wire connector being in the wrong spot.

After I read your advice a fourth or fifth time, I did realize you meant the actual armature wingdings and their orientation inside the housing. Like I said, I did not remove this. But, I did take a closer look this morning and as a result of my exploration, I may have rotated it inside the housing one or two 'clicks'.
I've managed to get the starter back together. Getting the 4 brushes seated wasn't as hard as I thought. I also noticed two washers underneath the little circuit board that were loose but they naturally aligned with the starter shaft once inserted.

So now, I am looking at how to bench test this. My inclination is to hook it up to a battery charger or battery and see if she spins but, hmmm, if it's not under load, will that be an issue? I have a couple of batteries and battery chargers and I also have multi-meters and a clamp meter. The latter manual says it's not designed for DC readings but it does read dc volts consistently; albeit the number may be much higher than actual.

BTW, how does the armature being slightly out of alignment cause it to 'run backward' or pull extra current? Doesn't this thing spin inside the housing anyway?

Last edited by Randy_B; Yesterday at 03:07 PM.
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