HELLLLP!!! 2009 wont start - Page 2 - Yamaha FJR Forum : Yamaha FJR Owners Forums
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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-24-2020, 08:18 PM Thread Starter
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Too bad this didn't happen after I was to arrive in Freelton, ON., which was my vacation destination this week. I just realized that RaYzerman is from just down the road. I was born and raised in Puslinch. Small world.
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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-24-2020, 09:29 PM
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If it were me, the very first thing I would do is take the battery(s) and have them load tested, once I knew I had a good, fully charged battery then I would start chasing wiring,relays & such.
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Steve P
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Ride more,, worry less !
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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-24-2020, 09:32 PM
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OK, the black wire going to the starter is the +ve feed to the starter motor, through the brushes and comm... body of the starter is grounded to the engine by way of the two mounting bolts. If that is showing sparks without spinning the starter, then something wrong in the starter, which does not seem reasonable at the moment.

I'm going to suggest gunsighting up from the left side above the clutch slave to see if you can see the rubber boot on the top side of the starter and that the cable is still attached to the starter (single screw under the boot), and not laying there shorting on the engine. That will be lots of fun getting that back on from that position... screw is threaded into the starter lug and there is a nut on the other side to keep it from backing out.


However, you still have the strange deal with the starter relay, there should not be 12V on the starter cable side with the ignition off and no start button pushed. Have we got also a fried relay is the question. At this point, I'd be getting a new one anyway, they're cheap.
Yes Freelton just up the road 10 minutes.... jeez, wow.
To get the starter out, you have to remove the seat tray, tank mount, air box, then the throttle bodies... I am way practiced at that as I had to do it 3 times on my project bike.... can likely do it in 40 minutes.
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Ray
Keep yer stick on the ice....
2014 FJR1300A - Root Beer (sold)
2009 CBF1000A - Sienna Red
1999 VFR800Fi - Pearl Shining Yellow
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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-24-2020, 11:49 PM
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OK ..here is a picture of how my Suzuiki bandit works .. I am just guessing as I dont have a diagram of thee Yamaha ... but on my bandit the is no power to the starter side until you push the starter button ,,the closes the relay and allows power to cross the the starter side .
So if you were to use a test light the starter side should show GROUND the when the button is pushed it it will show power ..
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File Type: jpg StarterRelay bandit.jpg (36.7 KB, 9 views)
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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-25-2020, 12:22 AM
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Ok I just yesterday received a CD manual in the mail .. check the wiring diagram ....the diagram sucks .. but you should have red going in black leading to starter ,,, red and white will show nothing until you push starter button ..which will then send power the starer and spin it ..the purple ? and white should be ground
and lst me go for the obvious..are you in neutral and is the side stand ALL the way down ??
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post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-25-2020, 12:27 AM Thread Starter
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Nothing new to report. Just reporting in ( because I personally find it discourteous when people get online and beg for help then never bother to update those that took the time).
This was the first time the FJR really let me down - and I suppose it was really me who didn't identify the problem properly sooner - who is to blame. I live on Vancouver Island BC and this place gets awfully small very fast for a bike the size of the FJR. Fortunately I have a job where I have 2 weeks off every month and this has allowed me to explore the entire continent on my bike. My FJR literally literally averages 1 month in my garage for every 11 months it is in storage in a different part of N. America; free for me to fly to and use at any time. It has been a loyal companion and in the 150,000 kms I have put on it in the past decade (sorry Ray, you asked me the mileage-didnt state it), I don't recall ever having it in the shop, save the two times I took it to GP suspension in WA and CA.
Tomorrow was supposed to mark Day 1 of weeks of planning with a fellow rider I haven't seen in almost 3 years that would take us to Ontario on this trip, Nfld later this year and eventually Tampa or Miami later in the fall (assuming things get better with the pandemic). I've come to the realization that I am not going to be able to make the trip as planned, as I have already delayed it a couple of days due to other unforeseen BS. Needless to say, I am pretty deflated about the entire thing. Even if I could get it into a mechanic and out by tomorrow and a thousand bucks lighter, I doubt I could make it work and still feel happy about outcome.
So, tomorrow morning, I am going to follow up with the advice those of you have taken the time to give and see if anything jumps out as do-able, but my gut says a miracle isn't in the forecast. I've already spent 2 weeks at home under self-quarantine so I am not putting others at risk during my cross-country journey, and frankly, I need to get the **** out of here. I'm thinking if RaY was here, the bike would be road worthy in minutes or as long as it takes to get needed parts, but for me, it will probably take much longer and be more of a lesson in either stress or alcohol management; (the latter I've already started the second class).
Anyway, I will keep you posted, but likely my beloved FJR is getting the insurance removed until further notice, at least until I have a more worry-free period to work on it.
If you don't hear from me in 24 hrs, thank you all who took the time to give me such good advice on such short notice; the work isn't completed, just postponed.
Randy
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Last edited by Randy_B; 06-25-2020 at 01:00 AM.
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post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-25-2020, 06:44 AM Thread Starter
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Yet another update (this is almost becoming a soap opera).
I've literally lost sleep over this. Woke up at 2am still trying to connect the dots because something just doesn't make sense. If I forget everything else and just focus on what happened when this all started it boils down to turning the key on, hitting the starter and waiting for the bike to start while hearing nothing but the battery drain as it turns over. Then, for all intents and purposes, starting off with a new battery and all else unchanged, the bike won't even turn over, it justs make a single 'click'. How could that be? I struggled to make sense of how it seemed like there was a short in or at the starter and how simply trying to start the bike resulted in that.
I came downstairs in my robe, grabbed an endoscope to probe the location where the starter is to see if - by some sort of unlikely calamity - a wire fell off and was shorting to the frame. All I concluded was that the $120 I spent at Crappy Tire on the endoscope was a waste of money. I then decided to grab a wire and actually bridge the connectors on the relay even though in my mind, I have effectively already done this. I took one end of the wire and stuck it on the black wire leaving the relay and the other end to the +ve terminal of the battery. Two things happened: the starter turned and I burnt my fingers (on the wire that took an instant to turn almost red hot).
How this didn't happen before - when I had the relay wires disconnected and supplied power to the same circuit - escapes me. Perhaps, the current draw to the starter was enough to give the initial impression via the sparks that it was a short when in fact it wasn't. I don't know. But, I am now rapidly arriving to the conclusion it is a fried relay and a starter that needs a cleaning. What to do now? 'Not sure. I may delay the bike trip until later in the summer or I may try and procure a new relay on short notice and salvage this trip in a state of semi-panic. Either way, Ray, I owe you a beer and wings; and, if I do make it to Onterrible this year, that's going to happen.
Looks like I will still need to do some service to my starter after reading many threads on the topic. For now, it appears I can get the bike running without having to resort to rolling it down a hill by replacing the relay. If someone could provide the part number, that would be great, as I am too burnt out to look it up myself. HaHa.
If anyone is interested, I'll continue with the updates. Either way, I hope this helps someone else facing a similar issue troubleshoot their problem.
Randy
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post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-25-2020, 08:03 AM
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Im in to see you get it resolved.. FWIW, I know you seemingly have it traced to a bad relay now but I had similar symptoms (not on the FJR) with an actual starter button once.. But you had bypassed everything anyway and ruled that out.

Hope you can salvage your trip!

Ron

40 years on all kinds of 2-wheeled creations
Current Bike: 08 FJR1300
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post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-25-2020, 08:12 AM
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OEM starter relay is 3P6-81940-00-00. If you have a bike dealer near you, take your old relay and match it, there are only a couple of types, the connector much match for your lo-volt wire connector.


The lo-volt side sends power to the fuel pump relay, and ABS pump relay, the one 30 amp fuse is for the ABS pump, the other is a spare.


If the starter is turning, it's likely OK, again, mileage would tell me a bit more but the odd person has had to clean... it won't hurt to do that, but normally not necessary unless you have had a history of slower cranking (with a good battery and relay are in good shape). The comm gets brush dust which can bridge some of the comm sectors. If you do go to clean it, BEFORE you disassemble, mark the position of the center (permanent magnets) to the end housings and re-assemble in that exact rotation. It is a lot of fun trying to get the comm back into the 4 brushes, then hold it in while you slip on the permanent magnet shell... magnets very strong.


Starter relay draws a button to short across the two cable connections to send juice to the starter... yours is stuck if you get 12V on the starter side with no ignition on/starter button not pushed. Pic is forensic surgery I performed on a faulty relay which had the relay coil wires fried (non-op). Not the best pic, I kinda bent things and destroyed it but you get the idea... plunger pushes the button which bridges the two cable contacts.










I have pics of forensic surgery on a starter also......












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post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-25-2020, 12:02 PM Thread Starter
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