LiOn battery charging & selection - Yamaha FJR Forum : Yamaha FJR Owners Forums
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 07:28 PM Thread Starter
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LiOn battery charging & selection

My main concern is getting rid of the weight on the lead acid battery.

Assuming I put a LiOn battery of some sort in my '17, do I have to make changes in keeping charged while riding?

Recommendations for a specific vendor?

I used to think I probably knew what I was doing. Now I know I probably know what I'm doing. Which doesn't say I always knew what I was doing or always know what I'm doing. You know what I'm saying?
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'17 FJR 1300ES
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 08:45 PM
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My Gen I charges a Shorai just fine.

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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old Today, 03:16 AM
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I went for a Shorai. Also bought their dedicated tender. I just connect it after each trip and push the store button and forget it. Also during winter storage, it is very nice to just connect and forget.
Whatever battery, I think it is very important to keep them well charged. They shall not be completely drained.

So far it have been working without any issue, but only used a few months so time will tell. I will never install a heavy led battery again, for me it is worth the extra money.
I know other brands have been discussed here, and might be better alternatives.

https://www.fjrowners.com/forums/8-f...ml#post1216177

Roger
2016 FJR AE (ES)

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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old Today, 08:43 AM
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I have arguments on both sides.... the pluses are weight, mostly reliable cranking (depending on temperature), and perhaps longevity (unknown for the most part).
As for the weight, does anybody really think that's a real practical advantage on a 650 lb. bike... on a race or dirt bike it makes sense if you're squeezing pounds.

I was given a Shorai some 5 years ago, my buddy (Ohio) got tired of it not cranking when the temps got below 40. Another buddy an I were on a trip to WV in September, it got close to freezing and his FJR wouldn't start until we warmed it up (leaving the ignition on for a while didn't work) with charge using my battery tender lead for 10 minutes. I took the gifted Shorai in my top box on trips, once used it to boost an FJR... didn't work, it was 40 degrees out. Another buddy with an ST13... got rid of the Shorai after one year because of cold start issues. My only advice here is, keep it warmed up on a charger overnight, it will likely be OK on a cold day after that ('cuz you charge it while riding, keeping it awake).

I know of a couple of Shorai's that totally died when they were discharged to dead (key left on). Unrevivable. At least my power tool lithiums have circuitry protection to not allow them to go below 4V, perhaps another brand like EarthX or Battery Tender does. I'd do some research before buying.... don't leave your key on accidentally.

As for longevity, I haven't heard any reports of 5 plus year old lithiums, but I expect they will go at least that long if treated right. As for the cost/benefit side, I can buy two Yuasa's for the price of a lithium, and my Yuasa's usually last me 5+ years... that average will go down if you live in a hot climate regardless of battery....
I still have this Shorai and use it as a portable power supply in the shop or to boost my lawn tractor that has a failing lead-acid after 7 years... gotta get a new one! It sits and doesn't lose charge (not hooked up to anything so no parasitic draw), and when I need to charge it, I just put it on the battery tender. It's about 7 years old now, but it hasn't had a rough life.
The lithium technology is great, no doubt, if you can rationalize it in your situation, go for it.

Ray
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old Today, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaYzerman View Post
As for longevity, I haven't heard any reports of 5 plus year old lithiums, but I expect they will go at least that long if treated right.
My Tesla is 6 years 1 month old. New full charge yielded 265 miles of range. Its down to 252 now. However it is plugged in most every night and has a very protective BCM, heaters, and cooling. Is not unusual for the car's fans to be running when parked on a summer afternoon.

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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old Today, 09:43 AM
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I personally have been on the fence on this subject, removing a fair amount of weight high up in the bike should be noticeable in the reduction of the top heaviness and handling but the problems reported on LiOn batteries whether real or not makes me question using them.

I have a friend who has a 2014 triumph trophy that other than being physically larger & heavier than my fjr when you look at it you’d swear it was just a rebadged Yamaha, it carries it’s battery in the exact same place and uses the exact same battery and he’s had a Shorai in it for 3yrs now with zero issues. Add to that, that he is one of the very best electrical engineers that I’ve ever known and highly recommends the LiOn batteries makes me want to just buy one, he claims very noticeable handling improvements.

Now the flip side is that he’s what I consider a “fair weather” rider ,, he rides a lot but not in any kind of extremes, where as I have regularly come out of work to 20f temps and snow which then brings Ray’s comments above into play. I do keep my batteries on tenders when not being used which in my opinion adds a lot of life to them. I have a couple of Deka AGM batteries that are well over 10yrs old. A LiOn battery charger is required & will add to the initial expense.

I’m still on the fence but my oe battery is now 6yrs old and still checks good, decisions, decisions ! A new Shorai is more expensive than a new Deka AGM but not a great amount more, but it wouldn’t be a cheap experiment.

I’m not 100% convinced that a lot of this isn’t just an “old wives tales” thing like synthetic oils will make your bike/car/bladder leak.... time will tell.

Steve P
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Ride more,, worry less !

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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old Today, 02:26 PM
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I’m not 100% convinced that a lot of this isn’t just an “old wives tales” thing like synthetic oils will make your bike/car/bladder leak.... time will tell.
The original synthetic motor oils would contribute to seals and gaskets leaking. But back then changing from any oil to any other oil was just as likely to do the same. Before they understood the contribution of oil to seal swelling, before they knew to test and quantify. Some oils would soak into and swell vinyl seals making a tight fit. Tight accelerated wear. Then another oil (sometimes of synthetic manufacture) would come along that didn't contribute the same to swelling so the worn seal relaxed and leaked.

Lithium batteries are different from lead-acid. There is a lower internal resistance, which on the face of it sounds like a winning solution (gives high CCA performance from low Amp-hour battery). Problem is the lower resistance makes cells connected in series less likely to stay equalized. Very little difference in resistance will cause one cell to charge/discharge harder than the others. Lithium is not tolerant of overcharging. Excessive discharge weakens lead-acid but kills lithium. The better lithium batteries contain a BCM (Battery Control Module) to actively help maintain balance and provide emergency cutoff from excessive and killing discharge.

As others have stated, I don't believe mere mortals can detect a change in handling for just a few pounds difference in battery. Can't say I notice the difference between 6.5 gallons in my tank vs 1.5 gallons. Then again long ago I had a KLX650R with 3 gallon tank that I learned to fill only enough to get back to my gas can. But later with KTMs, Husaberg, and Beta, with ~2.1 gallon tanks I routinely topped off before a ride.

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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old Today, 02:38 PM
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Speaking of batteries and charging, I put one of these on each of my F-150 and Outback to monitor. Think the FJR probably would benefit as well, but the FJR is driven more than the cages, each of which have Battery Tender pigtails but the FJR does not.

Search Amazon for B07NSTQCM8, Antigravity Batteries AG-BTR-2 Battery Tracker (Lead/Acid), $33.02. Also have a lithium version. Logs voltage every 2 minutes, 30 day memory. Smartphone app reads data via Bluetooth.

The app is clumsy to switch between multiple Antigravity monitors when both are in range. Automatically switches when only one is near. App doesn't seem to run in the background, only syncs data when opened.

Interesting to observe my newer weatherproof 3A Battery Tender holds battery to 13.0V but older metal box 1.25A Super Smart Battery Tender holds at 13.3V.

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