Rattling sound, then would not start - Chain? - Yamaha FJR Forum : Yamaha FJR Owners Forums
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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 12:41 PM Thread Starter
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Rattling sound, then would not start - Chain?

Hi, I've been enjoying my older 2008 FJR1300 A 125,000 miles!

I was on a street going less than 40 MPH when I suddenly heard a rattling sound. It sounded like something let loose inside the engine. I stopped the engine. Checked oil. Good. Then it would not restart I figured it was shot anyway). Sounded like the starter was rotating but not the crankshaft. Flat bedded it home.

Tore into it today. I needed to do a valve adjust, oil change, coolant flush, etc. I pulled both side covers. The chain is there. Carefully rotated engine by hand while holding the tensioner out so the chain would not slip. There is engine compression on each rotation. I have not yet removed the valve cover or the chain tensioner.

I did read up on the cam chain tensioner and it seems to be an issue on many of these bikes. I'm researching the issue, and replacements, including manual tensioners.

I am hoping that the cylinder head and valves did not sustain damage, if so I'll arrange a replacement motor. I'm too old and broke to go through a full head repair. But I am going to continue to open it up to see if the chain tensioner is bad.

I have so many questions because I have never had a catastrophic failure on a motorcycle. How do I tell if the tensioner has failed? Do they look broken? I plan on removing the tensioner after I secure the cams but as I understand it the tensioners are oil pressure fed.

Thanks in advance

Greg
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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 02:12 PM
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The tensioner is spring loaded, not oil fed (only gets splashed on). The design was changed mid-'07 to a new design and some perhaps a minor change since. Should have a dot on it, but it may not. Yours should not have failed, but if it did, it likely has a broken spring, whereas the early ones just got weak. Once you have the CCT out, you can unwind/wind it to see if the spring is broken.

You'll know once you pull the valve cover, line up the timing marks and see if the cams moved a tooth or two. Hopefully only one, but if it moved, then the CCT is the next thing to look at. Smart play to trailer it home and not attempt any further starts.
Let's see where you are at that point. You can re-time the cams, and with a good CCT do a proper compression test to see if a valve was bent by making contact with a piston. Sure hope not, kinda sounds like not. At that mileage you could do a head repair, but might find a good engine for similar money.
Keep us posted.

Ray
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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 06:33 PM
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You say the starter motor spun but the the engine wouldn't start. Under the generator cover you have a starter Bendix, it's a one way drive gear for starting, it's rare but it can ware out, when it does it will make a rattelling noise when the engine is running but will not start the bike.
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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 07:05 PM
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Good point, Alan. I re-read and see that starter may be spinning but not turning the crankshaft. It would be rare for an FJR starter clutch to fail, but who knows. To see if crankshaft is turning, remove the plug on the right side timing cover and hit the starter.
The starter clutch is under the generator cover as you say.
I guess one question is, was the rattle on the right side or left side of the engine?

Ray
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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 11:25 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply. I thought the CCT was oil fed. I'll be removing it tomorrow to see if the internal spring failed. And I'll be removing the valve cover too. I'm good with chain timing, I've done quite a few cars. I can line it up for a visual.
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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-31-2019, 11:37 PM Thread Starter
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I'm sure the rattling was on the right side. And I did pull the generator cover to see if the one way clutch was working. I had already pulled the battery out so I tried to rotate the one way clutch both ways but it only rotates one way. I'm going to assume that it is ok until I can install the battery again and prove otherwise.

The CCT mounting bolts have rounded corners on the flats where a wrench or socket would contact so somebody has been in there. (I bought her used).

I'll let you know what I find out. Thanks again!

Greg

Greg
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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 04-01-2019, 08:12 AM
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It might be helpful to use a sawed off 8mm box end, roughly 3" or so long, and come into the CCT from underneath.....

Ray
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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 11:58 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks, I got the CCT out with a standard 8mm wrench.

Do I have this correct? Is the CCT supposed to have a spring in it which pushes the rod into the guide? I screwed in the tensioner using a long thin screwdriver. Once I removed it from the engine I turned the screw counter clockwise so it extended and then tried to push it in by hand. It does not move.

And the tensioner body does not have a colored dot on it. And the cam timing is whacked. I pulled the valve cover. At TDC the #1 cam lobes face toward each other, inward, at approximately 45 off vertical, not away from each other like the manual says.

I'm going to keep digging and cleaning. I get the feeling that I'll be sourcing a replacement engine unless my valves miraculously survived, which I doubt. I've been through this on car engines. ugh.

Thanks again

Greg
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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 02:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrVanNostrand View Post
Thanks, I got the CCT out with a standard 8mm wrench.

Do I have this correct? Is the CCT supposed to have a spring in it which pushes the rod into the guide? I screwed in the tensioner using a long thin screwdriver. Once I removed it from the engine I turned the screw counter clockwise so it extended and then tried to push it in by hand. It does not move.
No, the tensioner is like a bolt screwing through a fixed nut. The spring does not push the shaft out, it applies a twisting torque to the shaft, and the shaft screws out. The different color dots on the CCT's indicate different strength springs, and maybe, different length shafts.

FJR Models owned from new, 2001, 2003, 2006, 2009, 2011, 2014.
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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 08:54 AM
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No surprise it doesn't have a dot in 2008 but it is the newer design. Later versions had a dot, and if in any doubt at that mileage, just replace it with a later version. If you can wind it in and out to observe the spring and it is not broken, then good deal.
As for your valve timing, if you rotate the crankshaft 360 degrees more, your cam lobes will be proper for #1 TDC (camshafts turn 1/2 of crankshaft rotation). Then you verify the timing marks on the ends of the cam sprockets, and/or double check the hole in the camshaft at the #4 end are aligned with a vertical mark on the cam bearing retainer. See post #25 for pics.
https://www.fjrowners.com/forums/8-f...e-rebuild.html


As for prior to mid-model '07, the old tensioner design suffered from a weakening spring. Rare but the later version could maybe have a broken spring. I will have to search elsewhere for pics of this.... again, to remove any doubt, just replace the CCT with the newest one.
Pending your verification of timing marks, I'll make a big assumption your tensioner is OK, but that doesn't explain a right side rattle noise. Flip your valve cover over, do you see a black plastic piece on the underside, which would be right over the cam sprockets? It is glued to the valve cover.

Ray
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