FJR1300 OEM Suspension Matrix - Page 2 - Yamaha FJR Forum : Yamaha FJR Owners Forums
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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 05-24-2018, 11:32 AM
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Ray:

First of all, thank you for collecting and sharing this data. You have provided a valuable service to our community.

Secondly, please don't interpret anything that follows as negating my first point or think of it as attacking your competence or integrity. That's not my intent at all.

With the greatest respect, something seems off about the Gen 3 ES rear spring data. This data indicates that the ES is about 20% undersprung. With my 195 lb. self (220 lb. in gear) on my 2015 ES, my total rear sag is less than 25% of travel. My impression while riding is that, if anything, I would prefer a little softer spring in the rear.

While individual tastes will vary, your experience and Penske and Race Tech's recommendations all indicate that a 685 rear spring rate is too soft while my experience indicates that what's in the ES is adequate or more so. From this I infer that my rear spring rate may be greater than 685 lb/in.

I read your article as indicating that you calculated the spring rate for the ES. May I ask what your source data is for the calculation? Did you measure an ES spring? Did you find published numbers?

Finally, have you ridden an ES version and, if so, did you have a chance to adjust the preload and form an opinion?

To let you know where I'm coming from. I'm a retired mechanical engineer. While no suspension wiz, I do have a bit of experience messing about with the suspension of my 73 Alfa Romeo coupe including calculating spring rates and working with suspension engineers to select optimal springs for it. Please don't take this to imply that I know everything and you're an imbecile. As my dear wife would be the first to tell the world, I'm entirely capable of being completely wrong on almost any subject.

Thanks again for your effort in collecting all this data for us.

Ride safe/have fun
Bob Stewart
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-11-2018, 10:30 PM
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curious why the Gen 3 shock springs are so much stiffer. Does the mounting position give them less leverage or something?
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-12-2018, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Beamo1300 View Post
curious why the Gen 3 shock springs are so much stiffer. Does the mounting position give them less leverage or something?
Not much its more to do with gen 1s and 2s being under sprung - especially for two up riding.

My gen 1 has custom re-valved and re-sprung forks and a replacement custom made shock. The difference is night and day it makes you realise how crap the standard suspension is. This is not just on the FJR though i find most standard suspension needs to be custom built to get the best out of any bike. I suppose my background in racing means i understand good suspension.

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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-12-2018, 07:25 AM Thread Starter
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I'm not a suspension expert either, just gathered from personal experience and inputs from the forums, used Yamaha's own data for the matrix. I don't know Yamaha's thinking except to design something OK for the majority and hope it works, their majority seems to be for someone 150-180 lbs.. most of us aren't that high school weight any more...


If you're a twisty rider, a little more spririted, you're going to want something better... talking spring loads only for a sec, it has to carry your weight first, then the damping comes into play. I think most of us know the Gen1, 2's had notoriously soft front springs, e.g., and an upgrade in spring helped the most. Personally, I think the OEM fork damping is OK.


ES rear spring data is published for '14-'15, 685. If you do the calculation for the dual spring shock on an A, you'll see I noted it is 651. I only have testimonials from ES riders, and know that the A rear is too soft. I have measured sag with various weights ES riders at various preload settings. In my case at 200 lbs, the aftermarket 850 lbs spring works for me, 950 was too stiff, I'm sure I could get away with 800 if I could dial in preload (love that hydraulic adjuster). ES riders who want to play spirited tell me they set rear preload to two-up... hints at the one-up situation hasn't got enough spring.


If you're a touring type rider, you're going to care less, and like the softer ride, or it just does well for you.


Fork springs were always weak, the Gen3's got stiffer ones, about time. ES got straight rate 1.0, A's got a dual rate, which IMHO, that lower rate is too soft (0.85), and in my case, I have the preload dialed all the way in to get me closer to the 1.0 feel and less dive.


Suspension is personal preference in the end, and there is no one perfect one fits all. I bias my settings towards, what's happening in the more extreme case, like taking a curve hard, and not having it wallow around. I know I don't do that all the time, but I want to know it's going to be more controlled if/when it needs to be, yet it gives me a good ride for 90% of the conditions I ride in.
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-13-2018, 06:05 PM
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Thanks Ray, very complete!!
Around a year ago or so, as we were all chatting about this ES suspension stuff.....I posed the question about getting in the forks/shock and bumping up the rebound (slower return) without increasing the compression.....then hooking up the servos again and let them due their job. My desire being to give myself a couple clicks, so to speak, more rebound across the board without affecting the compression.


Have you made any headway with that understanding? If you have.....and have posted anything (whether here or another sight)....could you please insert the link (or send it to me)? I started looking around at old threads and thought, shoot, I'll just ask ya. This year I want to do a re-valve, re-spring where applicable for me....and would very much like to address this rebound issue if possible.


Thanks for your efforts!!!!

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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 07-13-2018, 06:52 PM Thread Starter
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I have not made any headway... if I had an ES, I'd play with it. The rebound and compression are rotary valves, the adjustment settings rotate the cartridge rod. The only way I see of changing the amount of damping is to change the rotational position where the cartridge rod is screwed into the fork cap... it would be trial and error.


Re-valve? It is the other way of course. Not sure any suspension shop has done that or has anything available.


Re-spring? Rear shock only, I would think, front is fine at 1.0 springs. At this point I don't think anyone has done it, but suspension shops say, sure we'd like to look at that... big job to get that shock off....
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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-25-2019, 09:29 AM Thread Starter
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Bump... admin, can we make this a sticky?

Ray
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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-25-2019, 02:43 PM
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Ray,

A question on your file: Should the rear shock HARD setting be for K2 instead of K1 since it has the stiffer spring rate? Or are the numbers reversed? Or am I totally not getting it?

Robin
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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-25-2019, 06:57 PM Thread Starter
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Laws of physics........ The OEM shock has two springs, the top one is K2 and only has a couple of coils. The bottom one is K1 and has more coils. The two of them stacked together are softer (the SOFT setting) than either of them by themselves. See formula for calculation. When you switch the lever to HARD, you lock out the K2 spring and are left with the K1.
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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 12:43 PM Thread Starter
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Bump for those recently inquiring about suspension stuff.
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Ray
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