The Ground Spider Comes Home to Roost - Page 3 - Yamaha FJR Forum : Yamaha FJR Owners Forums
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post #21 of 148 (permalink) Old 10-10-2016, 08:47 AM
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Excellent write up.

All this does make one wonder why Yamaha went to the trouble and expense of using spiders. It would have been cheaper just to do want Bent did when making the harness. Anyone have any ideas?
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post #22 of 148 (permalink) Old 10-10-2016, 10:28 AM
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I was once chastised for casting dispersions on electrical issues on FJR's. IMO, the FJR is and has been an extremely well designed and reliable motorcycle. There have been issues that could leave you stranded and the spiders are one of them. What is amazing to me is that they knew the issue in 06 and 07, even had a recall in 08? and yet they made no design change. Not even in Gen III's.

Excellent work Russ.
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post #23 of 148 (permalink) Old 10-10-2016, 10:39 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by philharmonic View Post
I had a thought today, while riding my 07 FJR and thinking about maybe having to go through this procedure a thousand of miles from home and all my tools and soldering iron.

If we know the two or three spiders that cause most of the spider problems, and since we know {I think} that it's not ALL the wires but the ground wire that overheats and causes the damage to the other wires.

Why don't we just cut that ground wire off on both sides of the three spiders, bypass it with a piece of good wire and solder and double heat shrink both sides.

Not only would this avoid the main problem, which is the corrosion that builds up [and then HEAT} at that poor contact area inside the spider. But it would also keep the ground wire from burning up all the other wires if it ever DID overheat.

Seems cutting and splicing three wires {or even more} NOW would be worth it for the peace of mind.

I probably don't know what I am talking about here, so please be gentle. I am NOT an electrician OR a mechanic. {I did stay in a Holiday Inn once}.
I get the impression that you think the ground wires in question are part of a larger plug containing other wires, yes?

No. That's not the way it is. See, the ground spider plugs contain nothing but ground wires. In not-too-technical-terms , if you think of the electrical system like:

the power leaves the battery on wires, then operates a load(like a light bulb), then returns to the battery on wires.

It's the return wires we're working on. A ground spider plug is a collection point for 5 wires returning from each of 5 different loads. The 6th wire takes all the return current from the other 5 and takes it back to the battery. Kind of like a sewer system: 5 houses discharge into little pipes and those 5 little pipes meet a slightly bigger pipe at the street and off it goes to the sewer plant. Get it? The "spider" thingee is just a 6-pronged metal jumper that fits into the plug and connects all 6 wires together.

IMHO the wires themselves generate very little heat during normal use. The problem is the spider, the metal jumper itself. They are prone to corrode. And once even the littlest bit of corrosion is formed the electrical resistance goes up, which creates a little heat, which enhances corrosion formation, which causes more resistance, which causes more heat, etc. until poof! Failure.

So then we either get the entire harness replaced by a dealership (NOT ME!! F THEM!!!) or fix it ourselves.

Does that help? That's also why I just went ahead and did the S6 along with my failed S4. S6 is one that I had read about failing on someone and since I already had access to it, I did it. In all, the 2 spiders I cut out can be done in one day.

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post #24 of 148 (permalink) Old 10-12-2016, 09:02 AM
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I get the impression that you think the ground wires in question are part of a larger plug containing other wires, yes?

No. That's not the way it is. See, the ground spider plugs contain nothing but ground wires. In not-too-technical-terms , if you think of the electrical system like:

the power leaves the battery on wires, then operates a load(like a light bulb), then returns to the battery on wires.

It's the return wires we're working on. A ground spider plug is a collection point for 5 wires returning from each of 5 different loads. The 6th wire takes all the return current from the other 5 and takes it back to the battery. Kind of like a sewer system: 5 houses discharge into little pipes and those 5 little pipes meet a slightly bigger pipe at the street and off it goes to the sewer plant. Get it? The "spider" thingee is just a 6-pronged metal jumper that fits into the plug and connects all 6 wires together.

IMHO the wires themselves generate very little heat during normal use. The problem is the spider, the metal jumper itself. They are prone to corrode. And once even the littlest bit of corrosion is formed the electrical resistance goes up, which creates a little heat, which enhances corrosion formation, which causes more resistance, which causes more heat, etc. until poof! Failure.

So then we either get the entire harness replaced by a dealership (NOT ME!! F THEM!!!) or fix it ourselves.

Does that help? That's also why I just went ahead and did the S6 along with my failed S4. S6 is one that I had read about failing on someone and since I already had access to it, I did it. In all, the 2 spiders I cut out can be done in one day.
Thank you for that. Great explanation.

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post #25 of 148 (permalink) Old 10-12-2016, 09:24 AM
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"It's the return wires we're working on. A ground spider plug is a collection point for 5 wires returning from each of 5 different loads. The 6th wire takes all the return current from the other 5 and takes it back to the battery. Kind of like a sewer system: 5 houses discharge into little pipes and those 5 little pipes meet a slightly bigger pipe at the street and off it goes to the sewer plant. Get it? The "spider" thingee is just a 6-pronged metal jumper that fits into the plug and connects all 6 wires together."
laymans terms, very well explains it so that even I can understand what's going on. I hope the day doesn't come that I gotta deal with it, because honestly it looks and sounds like a pain in the behind to fix.
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post #26 of 148 (permalink) Old 10-12-2016, 10:31 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you for that. Great explanation.
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laymans terms, very well explains it so that even I can understand what's going on. I hope the day doesn't come that I gotta deal with it, because honestly it looks and sounds like a pain in the behind to fix.
Yoose welcome, glad to help.

I thought the same thing about the difficulty factor but like much of the FJR's maintenance it looks way worse than it really is. IMO, for the work I documented here, removing the plastics and coolant/coolant pipe are more difficult than the actual repair.

I wouldn't hesitate to do it again. In fact, I won't hesitate. The S1 (ECU), S3 (left knee) S7 & S8 (headlight adjusters) have all been added to my winter maintenance list for removal.

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post #27 of 148 (permalink) Old 11-21-2016, 03:21 PM
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So rbentnail, I don't think you ever posted the final results. Is everything fine? do you feel this will solve your problems indefinitely? I worry that if I ever do get to do my "out west" trip, worrying about this will take away from my enjoyment. Like a BMW rider worrying about the final drive on his bike.

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post #28 of 148 (permalink) Old 11-21-2016, 07:50 PM Thread Starter
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So rbentnail, I don't think you ever posted the final results. Is everything fine? do you feel this will solve your problems indefinitely? I worry that if I ever do get to do my "out west" trip, worrying about this will take away from my enjoyment. Like a BMW rider worrying about the final drive on his bike.
As far as I can tell everything is fine. Several day rides, 1 long weekend trip and commuting- no problems at all.

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post #29 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-29-2017, 11:30 AM Thread Starter
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In case anyone is interested, thanks to PhotoBucket, I took some time to re-create my posts and pics in pdf format and uploaded them to my dropbox acct. Below are the links, split it into 2 pages for ease-of-conversion processes, so each link contains about 1/2 of the original thread, pictures included. When you open a link you should see a download button top right for that, printing, etc. Hopefully this will continue to assist folks in the future now that pics are see-able again. I understand it's not in the best layout, sorry about that, but my main concern is to get the info back out there somewhere where folks can see it.

page 1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/rxfifuulld...g%201.pdf?dl=0

page 2 https://www.dropbox.com/s/rg91hx829r...g%202.pdf?dl=0

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post #30 of 148 (permalink) Old 12-29-2017, 03:37 PM
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Thanks for the write up. I kept on hearing about the ground spiders but until now didn't have a clue.

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