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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-04-2016, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by RaYzerman View Post
The GenIII throttle bodies don't have butterfly adjustments that I'm aware of (like the previous Gens), and the sync strategy for these seems to be to adjust to the one with the least flow (unlike previous Gens where you start with all screws ~3/4 turn out)..... most likely #1 screw is the reference and is in all the way. You should adjust at idle, and if you like spin it up to near 4000 and it should not be way out of whack I wouldn't think (how close do you call good/bad?), or at least, that was the way it was on my '07.

I'm not sure if others notice this, but on my '14, there is a slight buzz in the handlebars/footpegs around 3500-4000 that won't go away. Maybe that is another entire subject, but I'm not sure how to get rid of that..... makes me wonder if Yamaha knew it, and is that why the GenIII footpeg rubbers are taller and "fluffier"?

Perhaps another experiment I'll try is to back out the reference TBS screw and allow it to have a bit of flow, then balance the others to it. I might try this but it will be next season before I know if this has any effect, positive or negative.

The only other thing I can think to try is a meticulous valve adjustment to ensure they are all the same. Worry about that when valve check time comes around.


From everything that I have read about this topic, you do NOT want to touch the reference cylinder - as this is what the ECU is calibrated to.


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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-04-2016, 08:42 AM
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I'm not so sure.... the inputs to the ECU do not include TBS flow. It certainly wasn't true on Gen1/II. But again, all you want to do is achieve the perfect balance if that is possible with the one screw in all the way (no flow). I have no problem experimenting a bit, the only hesitation is if it affects idle speed, which is not adjustable on the GenIII. If it does have a negative effect, it's all reversible, no harm done and we'll learn something about the unknown.

My thought is with 1 cylinder having no flow and the others some, what effect that has..... of course, as roaddog has mentioned, there are other factors that affect vibration and some are beyond our control (we don't have a blueprinted engine, plugs can't be perfect all the time, perfect combustion, etc.)
@red , if TBS is adjusted at idle, then run up to 4000, at least on GenII tweaking it so the 4000 rpm balance was perfect had a significant effect on idle TBS..... traditional thinking was it was better to have the best balance at idle..... who knows, I can't recall anyone tweaking the 4000 balance and running with it. Perhaps worth a shot, again all reversible if it doesn't pan out.

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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-04-2016, 09:52 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RaYzerman View Post
I'm not so sure.... the inputs to the ECU do not include TBS flow. It certainly wasn't true on Gen1/II. But again, all you want to do is achieve the perfect balance if that is possible with the one screw in all the way (no flow). I have no problem experimenting a bit, the only hesitation is if it affects idle speed, which is not adjustable on the GenIII. If it does have a negative effect, it's all reversible, no harm done and we'll learn something about the unknown.

My thought is with 1 cylinder having no flow and the others some, what effect that has..... of course, as roaddog has mentioned, there are other factors that affect vibration and some are beyond our control (we don't have a blueprinted engine, plugs can't be perfect all the time, perfect combustion, etc.)
@red , if TBS is adjusted at idle, then run up to 4000, at least on GenII tweaking it so the 4000 rpm balance was perfect had a significant effect on idle TBS..... traditional thinking was it was better to have the best balance at idle..... who knows, I can't recall anyone tweaking the 4000 balance and running with it. Perhaps worth a shot, again all reversible if it doesn't pan out.
I have done this on my GenI 2005 model, balanced them at 4K and I had good results. Idle balance was close enough, a lot closer than the same attempt I recent did on my GenIII.
From all I've read the GenIII balance is to be made at idle and using cyl 1 as the reference so I readjusted, without test riding, back to a balanced idle.

That is the reasoning for my questioning. (If the Gen1 was to be done the same way, well I missed that instruction.)

After the re-balance on my GenIII my idle seemed better with the clutch pulled in where before it was pretty inconsistent. As far as smoothness at higher rpm I couldn't tell much difference, mine is really very smooth with what I call a rough spot around 4k that most people speak of, my 05 had the same but more pronounced but was tamed with the 4k balancing act.

Now, at the time I did the 05 TBS I also changed the plugs,(valve adj. was 10K before this adjustment) did that make the difference I noticed or the TBS? Or maybe the fuel I used in it? My 05 was kinda particular on what fuel I fed it. My 2013 doesn't seem to be as fuel- finicky IMO.
BTW, air temp also makes a difference, anyone else noticed how well your bike runs with cool dense air?

So after reading the comments from others that understand the mechanics of hows things work I come to the conclusion that there are many things involved besides a simple air screw adjustment.

This inline 4cyl engine design is a pretty smooth motor, if the engineers wanted to take all vibrations out of it maybe they should have rubber mounted it?
If some can stand it, try a V4 or an opposed 6cyl.

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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-04-2016, 10:42 AM
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Question on TBS sync

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Originally Posted by RaYzerman View Post
@red , if TBS is adjusted at idle, then run up to 4000, at least on GenII tweaking it so the 4000 rpm balance was perfect had a significant effect on idle TBS..... traditional thinking was it was better to have the best balance at idle..... who knows, I can't recall anyone tweaking the 4000 balance and running with it. Perhaps worth a shot, again all reversible if it doesn't pan out.
RaYzerman,

I agree. I have not done the TBS (either version) but after things were balanced at 4000 rpm, then I would back and check the balance at idle. I hear that adjusting things at idle would not affect the higher rpm settings, so it seems logical to make any final idle adjustments after that, if needed. I am not an engine expert for the FJR, and I do not play one on the Internet. I still do not believe that I know enough to do the TBS without experienced help on hand, at least for the first time. What I was saying was just to answer a point about smoothing out the engine at cruising speeds, which others have brought up also.

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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-04-2016, 12:04 PM
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kieffer, truth be told, whenever we've done syncs at tech days, and we've done a few, when we check at 4000 it's not that far off..... close enough not to mess with it. We tweaked, then went back to idle, and found we may need a very minor tweak there and maybe where we had it, and called it good. So, it makes sense your reverse method worked out. GenIII, I'd still run it up to 4000 and see whazzup, likely OK too.

red, a TBS is pretty darn simple really. Have no fear. Worst thing is you might lose one of the rubber caps trying to hook things up. You can't adjust idle on a GenIII (ECU controlled) but you can on prior Gens. Leave the reference screw alone and balance the best you can. Don't worry about 'readings' just get them all the same.

If you've got a prior Gen and can't get it right (one screw all the way in and won't balance, it likely means it's one of those where Yama didn't have the #3 reference out 3/4 turn, sometimes 3/8 and that was not enough). Note the FSM says when cleaning the throttle bodies, put them all 3/4 turn out (a tad more doesn't hurt either). Any one of them can be reference, and again, just make them all the same balance.

Ray
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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-04-2016, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaYzerman View Post
I'm not sure if others notice this, but on my '14, there is a slight buzz in the handlebars/footpegs around 3500-4000 that won't go away. Maybe that is another entire subject, but I'm not sure how to get rid of that..... makes me wonder if Yamaha knew it, and is that why the GenIII footpeg rubbers are taller and "fluffier"?
Yes, I just posted this in the vibe thread mentioned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kieefer View Post
BTW, air temp also makes a difference, anyone else noticed how well your bike runs with cool dense air?
Yes, I also get better fuel mileage, in spite of my state using a crumbier fuel blend in the winter...

Right now I am getting the worst mileage ever. Hoping that when I do the valves this winter and all other maintenance it gets better...

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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-04-2016, 12:56 PM
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The vibrations at about 4000rpms will stay for ever there in all fjrs.All one,two.three and four cylinders engines have some vibrations.
The TBS has effect only at idle and at about 1500rpms.Has no any effect at 4000rpms.
The only thing that you can do is to filter them with:Grip puppies,heavy handlebar ends and footpeg rubbers from a Gen 3.
Also avoid to holding tightly the grips.A cheap cruise control as the Go-cruise works great.
Εvery other effort to eliminate the vibrations is a lost of time...
Don't ask me how i know that...
These vibes/buzz comes from the coordination of metals that they turn especially if you leave the throttle in the same position for a long time.If you change frequently the position in the throttle you will notice some differences in those vibes/buzz,some times they are very noticeable and some times are not so much..

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Last edited by Mihalis fjr; 10-04-2016 at 01:15 PM.
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