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FJR won't downshift?

8K views 58 replies 19 participants last post by  RaYzerman 
#1 ·
Hello all,

Yesterday I ran into an issue of my 2008 FJR not wanting to downshift. I was starting out on a ride and the first 2-3 times I came to a stop from 3 and 4th gear, I would pull in the clutch and downshift. The bike would downshift one gear but then stop. I had to let the clutch out and pull it back in to downshift again. This went away as I rode it more, probably within 5-10 minutes of riding. Any ideas what this may be?
 
#2 ·
Several things when did you last change/bleed clutch system per FSM?

Check clutch lever is it clean, oil pivot bolt bushing on stock lever. This usually is a slipping issue not releasing.

Check clutch lever/rod linkage two pivot ends for free movement clean oil and check for correct length (see FSM) if the rod/lever is lose.

I am sure others have more ideas.
 
#7 ·
Same three things whenever shifting issues come up...
Flush and bleed, brass bushing in the lever, shift linkage not sticking. Throw in oil change if it's time. Go from there.
 
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#3 ·
What you are describing, easing the clutch out between downshifts, especially when completely stopped in a high gear, is perfectly normal and what I have had to do to downshift effectively and consistently on every single bike I've owned since 1981.
 
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#5 · (Edited)
If when you’re just riding along and if you pull the clutch in does the rpms drop immediately? Take a look at the tach when you pull the clutch in, the rpm should drop immediately with no lag,if it has any lag things are sticking.

Also if the engine oil is close to “change time” some oils will cause sluggish shifting.

That said, when you’re talking about downshifting is this at a stop Or a near stopping speed ? If so then I’d have to agree with Russ. But if you haven’t serviced your clutch or shifter pivot ( bleed clutch, lube the lever pivot, check/lube the brass bushing, remove the shifter & clean/lube the pivot) this is something that should be done on a yearly basis but is a “must-do” if it’s been more than 2 years. Imho. Keep us posted.
 
#9 ·
My .02,

No where in the any of the manuals does it talk about needing to let the clutch out between downshifts (pet peeve) and in my opinion if things are working correctly it’s not needed, all of my bikes that I ride I generally just click down while Rolling to a stop, no letting the clutch out, smooth shifts. But I’ll add that if you get to low on the speed it will not shift smoothly either, never a problem.

And I’ll also add that so long as you don’t over rev or drag the rear tire when you downshift/let the clutch out it ain’t gonna hurt a thing and may help shift smoother, maybe, but again I believe it’s unneeded.
 
#10 · (Edited)
My .02,

No where in the any of the manuals does it talk about needing to let the clutch out between downshifts (pet peeve) and in my opinion if things are working correctly it's not needed, all of my bikes that I ride I generally just click down while Rolling to a stop, no letting the clutch out, smooth shifts..
There is no need to pull the clutch in and out of downshifts for EACH SHIFT change.

Letting the clutch out slightly, WHEN STOPPED and in a high gear, allows the transmission to spin slightly and ALLOW the gear change.

In order to NOT get stuck momentarily in a high gear when stopped, simply downshift, as you slow down.

And do NOT change from 5TH TO 1ST GEAR AT 50mph (or any high speed, even with the clutch in) all at once-Not necessary and puts un-due stress on the gear box..

Downshift as you would upshift or at least WHILE ROLLING..
 
#11 ·
I just posted this in another thread.

A sequential transmission needs the output shaft or the input shaft spinning to shift properly. Actually all clutch dog gears need some movement to get the dogs to mesh. Sterndrives and outboards are the same way.

They are not designed to shift multiple gears with one clutch pull or while sitting still.


The proper sequences is:
Pull clutch, shift to 4th let clutch out while using the engine and brakes to slow the bike.

Pull clutch, shift to 3rd let clutch out " "
Pull clutch, shift to 2nd let clutch out " "
Just before you put your feet down, Pull clutch and shift to neutral or first.

Pull the brake for full stop.



It is called a sequential transmission because it needs to be shifted in sequence. Not thee or four gears at once.



Every riding school, class, track day, and informal instruction teaches this.
 
#12 ·
I just posted this in another thread.

A sequential transmission needs the output shaft or the input shaft spinning to shift properly. Actually all clutch dog gears need some movement to get the dogs to mesh. Sterndrives and outboards are the same way.

They are not designed to shift multiple gears with one clutch pull or while sitting still.

The proper sequences is:
Pull clutch, shift to 4th let clutch out while using the engine and brakes to slow the bike.
Pull clutch, shift to 3rd let clutch out "
Pull clutch, shift to 2nd let clutch out "
Just before you put your feet down, Pull clutch and shift to neutral or first.

Pull the brake for full stop.

It is called a sequential transmission because it needs to be shifted in sequence. Not thee or four gears at once.

Every riding school, class, track day, and informal instruction teaches this.
Exactly what I meant to say, thanks! ;) I generally start the process at about 30 mph and slowing. It's just the way I've always done it.
 
#13 ·
Thanks to all for the good suggestions and words of wisdom. I've only owned the bike around a month but have ridden it around 25 times. The behavior stood out because it was different. I'll start with the recommended maintenance items first. I'll also add that it occurred when coming to a quick stop, one that doesn't allow time for the whole pull clutch, downshift, release clutch, repeat...
 
#14 ·
I'll also add that it occurred when coming to a quick stop, one that doesn't allow time for the whole pull clutch, downshift, release clutch, repeat...
I will argue there is only one instance that you will stop too quick for proper shifting sequence. That is a panic stop when an unexpected object in in your path. And those happen so rarely that some will go years without ever actually needing to use it. Sometimes the stop is so violent that the rider loses balance and falls over at the end. It is a near death situation.

All other times even in some pretty severe situations you will be able to utilize the proper down shifting sequence.

Practice, Practice, Practice.
 
#16 ·
Douglas Crystal Braun, you need to change the way you ride, period.

I do not know what bike you came from, but, my first thought was this was your first bike, or any vehicle that has manual shifting. This is not a put-down whatsoever. I know I'm an Ahole making this conclusion from this little information. Please remember one can easily be doing 80 mph in third gear on this bike. My conclusion is that if your in 4th or 5th gear, you going at interstate speed. There is no way a quick stop can happen that often, even in heavy rush hour traffic, at the speed that requires 4th or 5th gear. If it is rush hour traffic, and possibly quick signal lights, then leave it in third, max. She redlines at 9k, loves 4 to 7k, hates 1 to 2.5k. I know because I came from a cruiser that HATES anything above 4k.

What did I do? I changed the way I ride and shift. Long distances on the interstate I MIGHT put her in 5th, always depending on the traffic conditions around me. If I have to make a quick stop, 2 things, first, I wasn't paying attention to the traffic conditions, second, I wasn't paying attention to traffic conditions and many curse words inside my helmet at myself. If a signal light came out of nowhere, yep I'm full on the brakes with my eyes watching behind me. Then, I will step through the gears slightly opening the clutch between each shift, still cursing at myself. Your condition with your gears is normal as others have said. 99.9% of the time, I am slowing down through the gears as I'm coming to a stop, even a quick one.

I realize you asked a simple question looking for collective knowledge, which is great, but please, for your own safety, change the way you ride.
 
#17 · (Edited)
I know its not how its written up, but I did a Douglas gear change yesterday and she didnt complain one bit. I dont normally do this, but wanted to try it. Stopped short of going into first until i was almost stopped, but 5th down to 2nd with no problems from about 40 mph. I did it slowly, not like my old motocross days where the old RM tranny didnt care what i did to it. I suspect if you have a fully functional clutch, (ie. fully releasing) there wont be a problem.
And no, i dont usually ride 40mph in 5th, just did it for experiments sake.

Wait, Douglas was, i think, completely stopped and tried to go down several gears with clutch pulled. My bad, thats not what i did. Im trying that today :)
 
#18 ·
Same scenario here, I always step down one gear at at time with a brief clutch engagement between each before a solid stop. When it does happen that I end up in a gear higher than 1st, I'll try to get thru "N" down to 1st but usually the bike, any bike, won't allow it. So like the others describe, I slide out the clutch until I feel the friction zone, pull it back in and finish the downshifts.

I don't think I've ever tried a series of downshifts like from 4th or 5th to 1st in one single clutch..... but WAIT!!! I have a slipper clutch now,,hmmmmmm LOL!

And did we just create another shifting style description as in "oooops I just did a Douglas". :)
 
#19 ·
I don't think I've ever tried a series of downshifts like from 4th or 5th to 1st in one single clutch..... but WAIT!!! I have a slipper clutch now,,hm. :)
The slipper clutch does not change the down shifting sequence. What it does is help the rider by not requiring RPM matching to the next lower(higher ratio) gear.

While aggressive down shifting without a slipper clutch the rider needs to match RPMs with rear wheel speed so the engine braking will not make the rear tire lose traction causing bad things to happen.
With a slipper clutch RPM matching is not required because the clutch will slip in that one direction keeping the rear tire from skidding under engine braking.

Less throttle precision control is required.
Clutchless down shifting is easier for the same reason.
 
#21 ·
I've rarely had a good experience downshifting 5-2 or 1 in one clutch pull, or when stopped. I try not to, thus not stressing anything (bending forks) in the tranny. You have to split cases to get at that stuff, uh, not if I don't have to.
 
#25 ·
In the 50yrs that I’ve been riding I’ve never done the let the clutch out between down shifts thing,, never ! And in spite of this I’ve never had a clutch or tranny issue,,,, ever. Now I’ll add that I don’t force the shift either, it’ll smoothly go into the next gear up or down if the bikes just rolling. Now that said I’ll add that if caught where I had an emergency stop or a brain fart rocking the bike a little forward or back will allow a smooth shift maybe just feather the clutch a bit but it’ll just smoothly shift, even on the very clunky 76gl 1000 tranny that I’ve been riding & street racing since new.

As a side note to the brain fart thing, ya know that the fjr will start from a stop in either 2nd or 3rd gears ? 2nd gear is hardly noticeable from 1st 3rd is a little more noticeable, this bike has great low end torque to be able to do that! And no I don’t do this intentionally or often.
 
#29 ·
In the 50yrs that I've been riding I've never done the let the clutch out between down shifts thing,, never ! And in spite of this I've never had a clutch or tranny issue,,,, ever.
Perhaps not using the clutch between shifts is why you've needed so much clutch work when nobody else seems to. Just sayin'.......
 
#27 ·
I've been reflecting more on the no-downshifting scenario and here is a better description:

I'm cruising in 4th gear going around 40 mph. I'm approaching a stop but I hold speed longer so I arrive at the stop sooner. As I get close to the stop, I pull in the clutch and downshift from 4-3. I feel the gear change. Without releasing the clutch I downshift again but nothing happens. It doesn't feel like I'm meeting resistance. It's the opposite, no resistance at all. Like the toe shifter isn't connected to anything. I release the clutch and try again and it downshifts like normal.

I will admit that when I'm driving around town, 40 mph and below, I consistently come to a stop by hitting the brakes and the clutch at the same time and click down through the gears as I slow down. I don't usually drop to 1st until I'm going very slow or just coming to a stop. But I don't release and reengage the clutch through this process. It sounds like a few of you do this also. Reading other sites and forums describe this as very common practice and not an issue for the bike, as long as the clutch is fully disengaged. If this is damaging to the bike let me know. I understand how this may not be the safest riding technique, should I need to speed up again unexpectedly.

If I'm riding in traffic I do downshift through the gears as most of you are describing.

Thanks again for all the wisdom and recommendations. I really appreciate it.
 
#28 ·
You'll be totally fine. I think most of the replies are just to let you know the best way to downshift into 1st when not moving.
 
#30 · (Edited)
Russ, not the case, on my 76 wing I’ve needed to adjust the cable and adjuster a 1/2 dozen times in the 44yrs I’ve been riding it same with all the other bikes I’ve owned or still own never a problem, the problems with the clutch on my fjr have had zero to do with the technique and more about quality which we all know is lacking in areas of the fjr. As I’ve stated many times the initial problems I had where they replaced the clutch a number of times was traced to machining debris in the hydraulic system so if you insist on spinning it into something it isn’t to make your point on this issue then that’s on you.

I tell you what, if you can show me anywhere in the owners or service manuals that Yamaha specifies Anywhere letting the clutch out between downshifts and not just some old wannabe Ricky racer thing then I’ll change my ways, but until someone can show me something more than Internet bs I’ll stay with what’s worked for me for the last 50yrs and not stoop to cheap shots to try to sell my point,,,,,, have a good day!
 
#31 ·
I tell you what, if you can show me anywhere in the owners or service manuals that Yamaha specifies Anywhere letting the clutch out between downshifts and not just some old wannabe Ricky racer thing then I'll change my ways, but until someone can show me something more than Internet bs I'll stay with what's worked for me for the last 50yrs and not stoop to cheap shots to try to sell my point,,,,,, have a good day!
Here ya go. From page 6-3 for my 2007 Yamaha FZ6 (I don't have the FJR manual anymore):



.
 
#32 ·
Townsend, am I missing something? Nowhere do I read on decel to downshift, let the clutch out, pull the clutch in & downshift, let the clutch out, etc. I just don’t read anywhere that the clutch should be engaged between downshifts, please point it out if I’m missing it.

Now let me clarify that I don’t recommend or do rolling up to a stop and try to downshift while stopped, it don’t work but I do roll down to a stop while downshifting with the clutch pulled in, done it for 50plus years w/o an issue.
 
#33 · (Edited)
You can certainly downshift, (clutch in) several gears at a time.

*That won't hurt anything but I wouldn't downshift from say 60MPH in 5th gear DIRECTLY to 1st gear (even with clutch pulled in).

90% of the time, I simply slow in one gear, when the RPMs get lowish, pull in the clutch and down shift several times (while moving). Just try to keep the gear at about the same appropriate speed (for that gear).

Clicking, downshifting at the above speeds (per Yamaha) are of course suggested.

The key is to be moving some for easier (on the transmission, no "binding"-not the correct word)

I don't use engine braking much/not hard... I'd rather wear out brake pads vs clutch plates.
 
#34 · (Edited)
Scott, I totally agree ! Your method is the same as mine, but the implication by others is that for proper downshifts you MUST let the clutch out between each click down to properly downshift and preserve your clutch & tranny, pure bunk in my opinion and the reason for my statement to show me in any service or owners manual where a manufacturer prescribes to do that.

I’ve looked in my cb750, gl1000, gl1100, gl1200, 80 & 81 cbx’s, 82 cb750f, 84 nighthawk, 82 kawasaki 550 ltd and several others which I have owners and service manuals for all and not one says that you should let the clutch out between downshifts for proper operation. Pure internet ******* Ricky racer bunk. Imho. Your bike, your money though.

Following your method above will ruin your clutch or tranny according to some, now as I said above I don’t believe/advise/advocate trying to just do the downshifting at a stop, it don’t work well. Like you I just casually downshift pulling up to a stop, hopefully getting back into 1st just before stopping, pull the clutch in and just snip-snip-snip-snip. Since Yamaha figured out what was initially wrong with the clutch system in my bike it just shifts so easy & nicely.
 
#38 ·
Scott, I totally agree ! Your method is the same as mine, but the implication by others is that for proper downshifts you MUST let the clutch out between each click down to properly downshift and preserve your clutch & tranny, pure bunk in my opinion and the reason for my statement to show me in any service or owners manual where a manufacturer prescribes to do that.

I've looked in my cb750, gl1000, gl1100, gl1200, 80 & 81 cbx's, 82 cb750f, 84 nighthawk, 82 kawasaki 550 ltd and several others which I have owners and service manuals for all and not one says that you should let the clutch out between downshifts for proper operation. Pure internet ******* Ricky racer bunk. Imho. Your bike, your money though.

Following your method above will ruin your clutch or tranny according to some, now as I said above I don't believe/advise/advocate trying to just do the downshifting at a stop, it don't work well. Like you I just casually downshift pulling up to a stop, hopefully getting back into 1st just before stopping, pull the clutch in and just snip-snip-snip-snip. Since Yamaha figured out what was initially wrong with the clutch system in my bike it just shifts so easy & nicely.
I (and this is just me) never said anything about "for proper downshifts" or any such nonsense. Different people have different ways to achieve the same results. My experience, on all the bikes I've owned, is that downshifting is nearly impossible when not moving and not easing the clutch out just a little between downshifts. Yes, it is possible to do for my FJR sometimes when moving to downshift multiple gears with one clutch pull but on my bike it shifts so much more efficiently, i.e., smoother, more consistently and quieter, if I ease out the clutch handle just a little, just to the point of "feeling the grab" of the clutch, between downshifts.

I fear I ruffled your feathers earlier, for that I apologize. But I also fear you're taking my discussion as a personal attack on your method of riding. I assure you, it is not. You do things differently, ok, so be it. Your bike, I don't care. Pointing out a difference is not an attack, at least not in my mind. But the way I interpreted the OP's post is "stopped in a higher gear attempting multiple downshifts while stopped with only 1 clutch pull". That is what I addressed specifically and I stand by my statement. I've never owned a bike that handles that particular set of circumstances consistently well. As for the other post, well, I'm an idiot sometimes and post without thinking.

Again, I apologize.
 
#35 ·
If you want to improve clutch action beyond the normal maintenance items, do a clutch soak. The two inboard plates (and spring ring) get pressure oiled from the inside, but very little if any gets on the rest of the plates, you'll find them mostly dry, maybe a bit "sticky". EZ to take them out, "soak" for 5 minutes put them back together. Oil doesn't really soak in, but the resulting film will last you forever. You'll find no more "sticky", just enhances clutch action. There is the normal drag when cold but that shouldn't last more than 5 minutes.

If you wear out a clutch before 6 digits show on your odometer, you're doing something wrong, slipping it a lot and I mean a lot. No worries there. Save your brakes.
 
#36 · (Edited)
Ray, Yepper, I’d say that after last summers aftermarket clutch lever induced slip-fest for about 750mi really told me that in spite of the poor oiling the clutch in the fjr is pretty bullet proof, if my clutch doesn’t end up Needing replacement by the time I quit riding my fjr I’ll be impressed. I put a lot of wear on it, but it was a problem with the “pretty” aftermarket levers not with my shifting technique as some have suggested. Seems to work perfectly now !
 
#37 ·
90% of the time, I simply slow in one gear, when the RPMs get lowish, pull in the clutch and down shift several times (while moving). Just try to keep the gear at about the same appropriate speed (for that gear).
The above is probably the best advice. The only time I would need to downshift multiple gears when stopped would be after an emergency stop. But then you still may need to let the clutch out slightly to align the gears. On the recommended shifting chart about the only one I use is from 1st to 2nd. Any higher than 20 and I sometimes get quite a CLUNK, CLUNK rather than a mild clunk. All the other gears is dependent on how I feel. Close to redline or 4,000-to 6,000
 
#40 ·
The next thing that is going to come up is shifting to 1st from N when stopped. The dogs won't be meshed and it will be like shifting into a wall, it won't go all the way in, even though it feels like the shifter moved a bit, it didn't move far enough. Sometimes working the clutch another time helps, but sometimes I need to roll the bike a bit. I usually stop in 1st unless it's going to be a long sit.
 
#41 ·
Rider, since all of the early clutch troubles I had with my bike, I have found that after initial startup the clutch seems to drag a little bit and the initial shift from neutral to 1st is as you say a big clunk or it doesn’t want to shift at all.

On my bike I’ve found that if after I start it and before I shift it I pull the clutch in and give the throttle a simple blip and after that it will quietly and easily just snip into 1st. It’s become part of my routine now and I believe it just breaks any dragging clutch plates apart, give it a try, it may help.
 
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#48 ·
Rider, since all of the early clutch troubles I had with my bike, I have found that after initial startup the clutch seems to drag a little bit and the initial shift from neutral to 1st is as you say a big clunk or it doesn't want to shift at all.

On my bike I've found that if after I start it and before I shift it I pull the clutch in and give the throttle a simple blip and after that it will quietly and easily just snip into 1st. It's become part of my routine now and I believe it just breaks any dragging clutch plates apart, give it a try, it may help.
The clunk and not shifting are two separate things. If it won't shift into 1st, it's because the parts have stopped spinning in a position where the dogs are not lined up with the receivers. The only time it clunks is when I'm in a rush and pull the clutch and shift very soon after.
 
#42 ·
I experienced a similar problem to what Douglas is describing on my '92 FJ1200 about 9 or so years ago. Thought it was the clutch but it turned out to be the return-spring on the shifter shaft. Once we replaced the shifter shaft the problem was resolved.

Click on the following link for additional info: http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=15407.msg155651#msg155651

I'm not sure if the shifting mechanism on the FJR is similar to that of the FJ but I'm guessing they are. I'm also not suggesting you try this first but if you rule out everything else you may want to keep this one in your back pocket.

As far as down-shifting goes, as long as you are rolling to a stop there's no problem with pulling the clutch in and clicking all the way down from 5th to 1st. You do not need to release the clutch between downshifts.

Zwartie
 
#43 ·
I experienced a similar problem to what Douglas is describing on my '92 FJ1200 about 9 or so years ago. Thought it was the clutch but it turned out to be the return-spring on the shifter shaft. Once we replaced the shifter shaft the problem was resolved.

Click on the following link for additional info: http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=15407.msg155651#msg155651

I'm not sure if the shifting mechanism on the FJR is similar to that of the FJ but I'm guessing they are. I'm also not suggesting you try this first but if you rule out everything else you may want to keep this one in your back pocket.

Zwartie
Part #3 for the FJR:

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcycle/2007/fjr1300a-fjr13aw/shift-shaft

I've never heard of the above stopper lever failing on the FJR but who knows...

I had the adjacent spring (part #1) break on a 1980 Yamaha XS650 twin. With that broke, the transmission "was all over the place"(with nothing to hold the shifter drum in place)
 
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