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post #71 of 100 (permalink) Unread 11-24-2019, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by shady28 View Post
I don't know why people throw the R1250RT into comparisons with an FJR. They are very different kinds of bikes, look at them next to an FJR or Concourse 14 and it's visible. Sit on them back to back and it's more apparent. Probably the only metric bike that ever competed with the R1100/R1150/1200RT/R1250RT directly was the Honda ST1100/1300. The K1300/K1600GT are BMWs true sport tourers.
So if motorcycles are not identical they can not be considered as an alternate for another?

Isn’t the difference the whole point of it all? A horizontal boxer twin vs inline 4? How dare mention both in the same sentence! But how can one know how they differ without trying?

I admire the engineering elegance of the BMW. The execution comes short. Too expensive. Too unreliable. Too German.

Own 2 German vehicles, sold the most recent a 2009 ML-320. Have a feeling for German Engineering. In a nutshell, “Why make things simple and stupid when you came make it complex and wonderful?”

For example the ML-320 mounted an air filter on each side of the engine feeding a single turbocharger intake. Being German each air filter was different so as to achieve someone’s notion of “better”.

The fuel tank was a single piece “saddle” straddling the driveshaft. Fuel filler in the right side same as fuel pump. Overflow to the left. A siphon from the left exited near the open fuel pump impeller which served to prime the siphon. Brilliant. But then to keep things complex and wonderful each side of the tank had its own level sensor. Fuel gauge had to calculate level from 2 senders. Typically German they got the math right and it worked **** well. Would have never known but due to modern German reliability one sender acted up with less than 50,000 miles.

What I concluded was if I drive just right, 400+ miles nonstop, the left side drained dry, the sender bottomed, and the math failed. Fuel gauge instantly fell to zero. Miles remaining “—-“, and no CEL. Fill tank to over half and things started working again. And would work for the next year all the way down to empty.

Speaking of the 2 air filters, the plenum intake to turbocharger was multi piece plastic. EGR feed too. A seam with clamp was located at the lowest point before rising to the turbo intake, a point where oil puddled and dripped through the seam on to a servo that drove a “swirl flap” for some other wonderful complex Germanism. Of course that would fail, $2000 for 18 hours to replace to mute the CEL. Stupid ignorant Americans learned how to unplug the harness and connect a resistor across terminals to mute the CEL with no discernible difference in performance.

My F800S uses a one-off belt that nothing else uses. $400 from BMW but now availability direct from the OEM. Advanced for 2007 it also has TPMS. But to make things wonderfully German the front sensor is unique inserted in a hollow of one of the cast wheel spokes. That is great but for eliminating easy aftermarket substitution. The tire valve is also mounted on a spoke which is brilliant. Everyone should do same. Easy to access. Tire valve on rear is more traditional but mounted to the side and at an angle. Much easier to access than stock FJR. TPMS sensor is also traditional automotive form factor.
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Last edited by N4HHE; 11-24-2019 at 07:57 PM. Reason: Spellings.
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post #72 of 100 (permalink) Unread 11-24-2019, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by shady28 View Post
With all those bikes, it sounds to me like you donít know what you like. Or maybe you keep making bad decisions.

Either way, the FJR is a significantly different bike from the R1200RT. They are clearly built for different purposes. Thatís why BMW has a different bike, the K series, and the F850GT for that matter. (Because they are different, if you didnít catch that).

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You guessed wrong. I seldom keep cars or motorcycles more than 2-3 years. When I got the ST1300 I was just getting back into bikes after 17 years. A long time friend owned the Honda dealer so I bought from him. Didn't like the bike. Bought a 2007 FJR and put 44,000 miles on it in three years. Bought a Concours 14 and put 33,000 miles on it in three years. Then spent six years on two 1600s that I put a combined 60,000 miles on them.

Keep in mind that during that time I also owned a second bike - two Goldwings for a combined eight years. And for the past seven years I've owned three bikes - meaning at the same time. I'm about to turn 67 years old and have bought 70 four wheel vehicles. It's what I do.

You may not like the RTs, but I'd bet nobody else on this forum would agree that they are built for different purposes. What do you think the RT is built for? Have you confused it with the GS? I seriously don't get what you are saying at all.
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post #73 of 100 (permalink) Unread 11-25-2019, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Myfjr View Post
Thats interesting. I was wondering about pillion comfort when I test rode the RT last spring. I may test ride again in the spring and bring the wife along. What specifically did she find bothered her?

I'm guessing true pillion comfort would be best on a K bike.
My wife is a bit strange in that sheís got used to the FJR seat and so looks for problems in other bikes. She criticised the RT seat because it is too high, and then because it was too big and had her moving around too much. We test rode the K1600 and exactly the same objections. Truth is that a friend who rode pillion on the RT thought it was much more comfortable than the FJR.
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post #74 of 100 (permalink) Unread 11-25-2019, 10:30 AM
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To me it appears that Yamaha is handing the ”sport touring” market pretty much to BMW after 2020 IF they don’t update or replace the fjr. The Kawi C14 is the only other bike left in that field and I personally don’t understand how it's lasted this long w/o any updates other than it’s very cheap to buy.

Yamaha’s big air cooled cruiser/tourer is a really big “miss” in my opinion because it certainly is no “sport tourer” and I don’t really see it as a real touring machine either just because it’s way to big, heavy and air cooled w/o a lot of power, don’t know what Yamaha was thinking on that one & i’d Bet they really aren’t selling them. But being that my interests are sport tourer/touring it’s not on my radar at all.

I’m hoping Yamaha is doing a major update with the fjr for 2021, not much of a market though but time will tell, we’ll see when the 2021 models are released.
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post #75 of 100 (permalink) Unread 11-25-2019, 10:32 AM
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Not a fan of the large fairing of the RT, but the R1250RS and it’s more sporty/smaller fairing and general styling has caught my eye more than once. But once you throw on fees and the optional bags, you’re looking at close to 20 grand. That’s simply too much for what is, for me, a summer toy.

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post #76 of 100 (permalink) Unread 11-25-2019, 12:23 PM
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My friend has a r1200rs that he ordered when I bought my 2014a, it is a really nice bike about the same size as the fjr ,,,, just a bit smaller and much lighter but a couple of things kinda put me off about it, 1st is the price, it listed (not what he paid) a little over 24k, 2nd is the exhaust note after he put an Akrapovic can on it, thereís just nothing about that exhaust note that sounds good to me, but he likes it.

Lastly, itís a beemer, which makes things very complicated and somewhat less reliable in my opinion. He just non-stop raves about the quick shifter and how the fjr isn't as good because it doesnít have one, I just think itís something frivolous and something else to break.

He is quite fond of reminding me of all the issues my fjr has had and I will admit thatís r1250rs would be on my radar in a fjr replacement search, but it IS very expensive and in my opinion complicated just for the sake of complexity. Plus iím not a fan of the industrial flat paint look it has. Just not my thing.

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post #77 of 100 (permalink) Unread 11-25-2019, 01:22 PM
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IMO, BMW wrote the book on rider ergonomics and, unfortunately, complexity. My '93 R1100RSL is just the most comfortable bike I've ever owned. It does have a Russell Day Long and handle bar set backs with a one inch rise from Bob's BMW. That said the FJR is absolutely great in its own right and I wouldn't trade it for a new RT with its high price and complexity to say nothing about BMW's lower reliability and associated cost to repair.
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post #78 of 100 (permalink) Unread 11-26-2019, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by shady28 View Post
With all those bikes, it sounds to me like you donít know what you like. Or maybe you keep making bad decisions.

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Why say something like that? Whatís the point? This is a great forum and there is no need for negative personal comments like that.

I have owned both the RT and FJR and for a while owned both at the same time. Both good bikes in some ways similar and some ways different. I could argue the case for either bike. Right now I have the FJR and intend to keep it for a while but thatís subject to change without notice.
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post #79 of 100 (permalink) Unread 11-26-2019, 09:42 AM
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Variety is the spice of life ! I own 14 different bikes, most are projects (5-6 always rideable) in the works that will be sold when done, but ill add that even riding the exact same models back to back gives different feelings and results.

I have 2 1976 gold wings, 1 (red the fastest color ��) that I bought new and an LTD limited edition that was handbuilt, blueprinted and balanced from Honda and what I really wanted when I bought the red bike but being that they only made 2000 bikes the dealers were taking bids that was nearly twice the price of the red bike so I ended up with a basket case restoration bike. Both are naked oe bikes with plexi-fairings on them and feel like very different bikes.

The LTD being a completely hand selected and assembled, blueprinted and balanced bike feels like pure fine wine , the chrome is all “show chrome” from the factory and is a very deep candy brown (candy cow Pie) very much like the 14 fjr’s that our canadien brothers got. The Ltd rides like a very fine wine compared to the red bike and feels much faster than the red bike but in truth the red bike spent a lot of time on my friends dyno, is highly modified and makes nearly twice the power.

Perception is rarely accurate and is why I always say that the “butt dyno” lies. But variety is the thing and why there are so many different makes and models, think how boring it would be if the only bike available was a Honda NT700 in hi-vis yellow, just wouldn’t be as much fun. Variety is why many have MBS (multi-bike-syndrome) ,,, different sensations and feelings as well as capabilities,,,, it’s a great sport and a good time to enjoy it,,,,I’m going back to sleep now ! Weather permitting , go take a ride....

Steve P
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post #80 of 100 (permalink) Unread 11-26-2019, 09:56 AM
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So Steve, you know about the speed of the Root Beer but you're just in denial? Well, it is a Goldwing after all, imagine the speed if that was a more powerful bike like the Canadian FJR... You'd sell off your red one if you only knew......
Variety is indeed the spice of life, every bike is different and brings something different to the table. MBS is a mental condition of the good kind!

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