Handlebar wobble - Page 8 - Yamaha FJR Forum : Yamaha FJR Owners Forums
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post #71 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-04-2019, 10:19 AM
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Interesting things that personal experiences, friends tales and hearsay lead us to conclude.
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post #72 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-04-2019, 10:22 AM
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Ray, I agree, when I first got my fjr I was really disappointed in the handling due to it wobbling when pressed into a corner and how hard it was to get it to bend into a corner, it was not very good and had several different causes.

Getting it to bend over into a corner was solved byhelp from several here (you & liquidsilver i believe) where I was toldto start increasing the front tire pressure until the turn-in became neutral which was a suggested 40 or so front pressure and was told that it would fall into a corner if It was to high, all very true. I typically run 40-42psi in the front and will add that the handling is perfectly neutral, iím Happyand havenít found anything scary there.

As far as the wobble/weave when pressed in a corner, quite frankly that was cured with the tapered bearings in my bike, much more solid and with that and the correct tire pressures my fjr handles perfectly for me, actually better than I am willing to explore.

I will add that I prefer tapered head bearings because they have a better load capability and dampening than balls do and if replacement is required I will use tapered bearings. But I will also say that if a set of balls are good and properly setup they are ok as well. On my fjr I believe that the oe ball head bearings were never right from the start and were not retorqued at the factory prescribed 600mi service. If they had been properly torqued at the 600mi service my bike may well still be on the oe balls. Kinda ticks me off because I paid the dealer to do the 600mi service on my bike and they didnít do it as they should have. Ended up costing me over $500 in the end when I put the tapered bearings in.

I believe that on a heavy bike like the fjr or a g-Wing that they should come oe with tapered bearings because of the higher load carrying capability created by the greater contact area. But iíll add that if my fjr had come withtapered bearings from the factory and improperly setup loose like I believe the balls were the result would have been the same,,,, I think,,,, maybe. Either way iím happy with it now as it is, I will add that last year I added more preload to the front springs and did add a couple of more clicks of dampening that initially I felt was too stiff but now after nearly a year realize that the handling is sharper.

I need to take sometime and figure out where things are at though because I really donít know and the initial ďtoo stiffĒ feeling I now find it to just be fine and a sharper feeling handling. Lots going on!
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post #73 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-04-2019, 08:19 PM
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When I first got my FJR I hated the handling going into a corner. I didn't notice any wobbling in particular, but it seemed reluctant to bend in and reluctant to hold a line. Even posted a thread about it here. Probably my second thread after an introductory thread. I was told it was the stock BS 023 tires. As soon as I wore them out (3 1/2 months 6300 mi) and put on some new PR$GT's (pun intended) the handling suddenly turned into everything I expected it to be. The advise was right on. Admittedly, I'm no Marc Marquez, heck I'm not even a young Ferret anymore, but I like to think I still have some game. I ride fast enough to please me anyway lol.
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post #74 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-04-2019, 08:52 PM
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RaYzerman, I have never run one model tire twice but for two RS3's in a row. The RS3 is a very light steering tire and with more than 39 PSI it is frightening. Still light at 36 but acceptable. Conversely the Shinko 016 is a very heavy steering tire which seems to need at least 39 PSI and is never pleasant in turns. Current front Metzeler Z6 has 39 PSI, most of the time. That seems to work well. But if/when it drops to 36 I don't drop everything and make time to add air.

My experience riding at limits is on dirtbikes. The handling at low pressures that bothers many here doesn't bother me nearly as much as light steering and a bit of hunting when leaned over when irregularities appear on the road. That is when one expects to kiss the ground. Off-road if your tires are not sliding then you are riding like a wuss. Its something I avoid on-road.

From an engineering background I've learned everything is a compromise. Many assume a scalloping motorcycle tire indicates something is broken. Realizing the tire is rounded and rolling diameter decreases from center to side I accept something has to scrub, and that results in a scalloping wear pattern. Increasing tire pressure narrows the contact patch which reduces the difference in rolling diameter across the contact patch. That in turn reduces the scrub and wear. But also reduces the traction which keeps me from sliding off the road. So which would you rather have, a worn out tire that is pretty with less traction, or a worn out tire that is ugly but provided lots of traction? Perhaps if one doesn't crash then less traction is not a concern.

Tapered bearing has same issue as a rounded motorcycle tire, it has to scrub. The diameter of the race is larger at one end than the other due to the taper. Some part of the roller has to slide over the differing diameters. Ball bearing has much smaller contact so much less sliding and less friction. But less robust in the same size package. Its another one of those compromises, can the rider really tell the difference? How many more FJRs will Yamaha sell if a no-wobble reputation is formed? How many more will Yamaha sell impressing California magazine reviewers with the feel of a new motorcycle?

Tapered bearings are not a no-wobble guarantee. But if ball bearing wobble is going to appear it seems to start between 5,000 and 15,000 miles. Tapered wobble much later.

Have recognized many times that not everyone has problems with ball bearings. I ride with a 2014 that at 88,000 miles still has the OE bearings. No wobble last time I rode his FJR. He is an odd one who won't make time to inflate tires until they drop to 32 PSI. Gets 10% longer tire life than I do. But the last 25% rides like a fat cow. My tires ride just about as good as new to the end. The Z6 currently wants to fall into slow speed turns, it didn't when new, but most tires seem to develop this tendency. The Z6 is nearing its end. The rear Z6 didn't last nearly as long as the front, that is a first for me. Can't see scalloping on the Z6 but can feel something with hand on tread. And I can hear it in turns (T31 on rear is new). That noise is new because tires visibly scalloped on FJR have been surprisingly quiet. Scalloped Dunlop 555's were noisy on PC800.

My wobble started at 14,000 miles and I spent another 14,000 miles with new tires (twice), adjusting preload, adding grease top and bottom, aligning forks, nothing worked until I installed new bearings. Put them in too tight and had to adjust at 100 miles. RS3 had 6,000 of its ultimate 8,000 mile life. Scalloped tire stopped wobbling. Still smiling. Adjusted again at 25,000. Thats my story.

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post #75 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-04-2019, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the Ferret View Post
When I first got my FJR I hated the handling going into a corner. I didn't notice any wobbling in particular, but it seemed reluctant to bend in and reluctant to hold a line. Even posted a thread about it here. Probably my second thread after an introductory thread. I was told it was the stock BS 023 tires. As soon as I wore them out (3 1/2 months 6300 mi) and put on some new PR$GT's (pun intended) the handling suddenly turned into everything I expected it to be. The advise was right on. Admittedly, I'm no Marc Marquez, heck I'm not even a young Ferret anymore, but I like to think I still have some game. I ride fast enough to please me anyway lol.
Have you wore out the PR4GT yet?

I think you are lucky and really really really ought to grease and set preload on your ball bearings now before the wobble returns because when (not if) it does the ball bearings will probably be beyond hope. Catch it now and they may last forever.

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post #76 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-04-2019, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by passx View Post
Getting it to bend over into a corner was solved byhelp from several here (you & liquidsilver i believe) where I was toldto start increasing the front tire pressure until the turn-in became neutral which was a suggested 40 or so front pressure and was told that it would fall into a corner if It was to high, all very true. I typically run 40-42psi in the front and will add that the handling is perfectly neutral, iím Happyand havenít found anything scary there.
Great for you! But what am I to do? My FJR falls tighter into turns with 36 PSI in front tire!

Well, it falls into turns at low speeds, and less so after the cold tire has rolled a mile or more. Spent time with a previous tire tweaking cold tire pressure and couldn't tell any difference, it just seems to be something that appears as the tire wears. Some models of tire more than others.

At higher speeds I don't notice it trying to turn in or stand up.

Would suggest the neutrality of a tire in turns has something to do with the width of the contact patch and the differing rolling diameters across that patch. If part is scrubbing then that will produce a force to turn the steering.

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post #77 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-04-2019, 09:19 PM
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Have you wore out the PR4GT yet?

I think you are lucky and really really really ought to grease and set preload on your ball bearings now before the wobble returns because when (not if) it does the ball bearings will probably be beyond hope. Catch it now and they may last forever.
Yes, on my second set of PR4GT's now at 20,000 miles. I had my stock bearings preload checked and adjusted at 3100 miles on the odo ( 2 months into ownership) by my local shop and they let me watch them do it. At first they were too tight and it wouldn't track straight, so I took it back and they loosened them a skosh and everything was good. Maybe this winter I will have them checked again when I have winter work done. (clutch and brake bleeding, plugs and air cleaner checked etc)

I never had a wobble going into turns even with the stock tires, just a reluctance to turn in and an tendency to stand up and go straight when going thru a curve without a lot of pressure on the handlebars. I have/had a slight 40 mph wobble at times when letting go of the bars (sometimes... not all the time. The other day after commenting on this thread, I tried it 5 or 6 times coasting from 50-40 no hands and it was fine, no wobble at all)
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Last edited by the Ferret; 10-04-2019 at 09:22 PM.
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post #78 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-05-2019, 07:53 AM
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post #79 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-05-2019, 09:15 AM
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post #80 of 85 (permalink) Old 10-05-2019, 09:26 AM
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where in the heck is the OP on this?? I'm dying to hear what solved his problem,,, I want to know that and to stop this cow beating...

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