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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 01:31 AM
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IMNSHO the ethanol thing way overblown. Certainly older motors' carbs need to be concerned about gaskets and o-rings being softened by ethanol. Almost any motor built after the introduction of ethanol is not at risk. And practicality says avoiding ethanol away from the home fuel pumps is wishful thinking.

Stabil is relatively cheap. Be sure to run the motor after adding it to the gas tank. Protection for the fuel lines matters, too.

And don"t forget to flush out brake fluid, etc., too.

I used to think I probably knew what I was doing. Now I know I probably know what I'm doing. Which doesn't say I always knew what I was doing or always know what I'm doing. You know what I'm saying?
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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 08:19 AM
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I read up a lot on ethanol once or twice... Gasoline itself will not degrade for a couple of years. Ethanol will loosen but not completely dissolve accumulated sludge on the inside of non-metal tanks as the boating people found (what's underground at your gas station?). Ethanol fuel that sits is going to start phase separation after about two weeks, which may cause water to start accumulating at the bottom of your tank. Ethanol can only disperse 4.5% water, whereas isopropanol can take care of more than 10 times that. Half a cup will cause starting and running problems in your fjr, more than that will just be worse, as the water is the first thing the fuel pump sees.
I should look more into what's in Stabil, but mostly the marine stuff is recommended. I choose good old naptha and isopropanol..... naptha dissolves gummy deposits slowly and isopropanol takes care of the water from phase separation. Good old Seafoam, no magic to it really, nor many of the "injector" cleaners... most contain naptha as a main ingredient. IF you can't get your bike started or it runs like a bucking bronco, put 2-3 ounces of Seafoam or some isopropanol in your tank and the water will disperse.
Fresh ethanol fuel is just fine, over a long time, there may be deposits on the throttle plates or the intake valve stems. Debatable if any additives will prevent that, but the name brand gasolines have better additive packages. All of these are added right before delivery from the refinery depot.
I personally don't use additives every tankful, but do anytime the bike is going to be down for a couple of weeks or more, or that first tank on a long trip where the bike will see extended time at full operating temperatures. Seafoam is my stabilizer do-all, just keep it simple and don't subscribe to all the snake oil (if you wanna know what's in them, look up the MSDS).
For those Yamaha RingFree users, again not a lot of magic, but it does contain a lot of oil. Nothing dissolves carbon.... my project bike's engine was regularly dosed with RingFree and ridden like gramma. Quite the accumulation of carbon on the pistons and intake valves and it was all very oily.... maybe if it had been ridden hard occasionally some of that carbon would have been removed? Not likely, it takes physical removal mostly, but you can keep the accumulation down.

I will go on and on about riding like gramma. Make an FJR see some of the real power band which starts to kick in around 5000 rpm. I don't mean redline it, but this engine does not develop full power until 7000 rpm. You'll feel much of it before you get there. If you don't rev over 4000, then I think you should sell your FJR.
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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 09:03 AM
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One of the reasons I purchased an FJR was because it will drink whatever E5-E10 gas I give it. My previous bikes CHOKED on anything less than 91 and wasn't a name brand plastered on the side of a NASCAR track. Knocking, hesitation, rough idle, etc. My lawn mower hates gas that is approaching a month old, so I have a system of rotation to keep fresh gas in most of the vehicles. I live in humid climate and have not had an ethanol-water problem in a car or motorcycle to date; however, I use SeaFoam in a full tank if it will sit longer than a month. Always a full tank, helps with vapor control.

This post is a good story of what can happen if you neglect the fuel. Even if the bike sat for 8 years, dumping the gas and letting it "run through" would have solved it. BUT, those plugs did need replaced and a TBS is warranted. Happy ending!

Speaking of... I'm not a fan of the filler neck and opening to the gas tank. I wish to be a bit more lazy while filling, but the design will punish you quickly if you do not pay attention to how full the tank is becoming while happily pouring away. Complaint for the sake of complaining? Probably.
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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnC View Post
Likewise, the DFW area. Well, OK, there are boat docks and airports and Oklahoma is about 40 miles up the road, but I pretty much ride year around so the gas doesn't sit that long in the tank.
Yes, we have the airport and marina thing as well ... Also about 40 miles away ... So I can ride 80 miles round trip and still arrive back at home with 40 miles of fuel burned (not a bad idea if I am looking for an excuse to ride) or I can ride 1/2 mile, fill up with top tier 87 octane gas at the local BP and toss a splash of stabil or seafoam or (insert stabilizer brand choice here) and let her sit with a full tank till i'm ready to ride ...

I actually throw the Stabil in before filling up so it mixes and gets into the entire fuel system ... I do not use stabil when I am on a multi day "ride" where Ill be filling multiple times per day ...

We actually do have one station 10 miles away that has a single pump with "ethanol free" gas off to the side for $5.00 per gallon that almost never gets used ... I bet that fuel has more water and crud in it than any of the normal pump gas as it likely sits for a long time since no one ever buys it (at least not often) ...

Either way, this works for me and the bike runs smooth and powerful year after year ...

Workin' them angels overtime ...
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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 07:45 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Red, I didnít know that was available and thanks again for everyoneís help. This is an awesome machine and Iím learning a whole new style of riding. We will ask about tires soon!
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post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 07:31 AM
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Fuel degradation in 2-6 weeks ? I don’t think so, it takes longer than that just to deliver it in most cases. Now I will agree that ethanol laced fuel will probably start to separate in that time frame if it was allowed to sit perfectly quiet with no type of agitation to keep it mixed, things like driving it down the road, or pumping it out of the tanks will agitate it enough to keep it mixed properly. RBEmerson is correct in that the fuel thing is waaaaaaay overstated.

A few years ago I contacted the customer service people at Mobil (because of this very discussion on another forum) and asked them about all this and was told that really nothing to be Concerned with unless the fuel is 6 months or more old and even at that point it is questionable whether it’ll be bad or not. Also was told that most fuel available today has some amount of ethanol in it because it is a better eco friendly octane booster than led or MTBE.

Now let me add a caveat on this in that we have no idea how long the fuel has been held in the storage tanks but in my opinion way to much “chicken little” concerning gas, open the tank and give it a smell, if it smells bad (we all know that smell) it probably is, Maybe.

The good thing about stale fuel or if it has water in it is that both conditions cause the fuel to be harder to ignite which is an anti-knock characteristic in preventing pre-ignition. But also makes it slow burning which is why it generally makes you motor run bad. My .02
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Last edited by passx; 06-18-2019 at 07:35 AM.
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post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 07:46 AM
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Bad fuel is just fuel with water in it. The problem is not overstated IMHO.
Pure gasoline out of the refinery goes into storage for long periods and is good to around 2 years..... this is gas with nothing in it. The additives including the ethanol are added just before delivery. The refinery can supply several brands, the no-names take less of an additive package, thus you are encouraged to use "Tier 1" industry standard additive packages.
Bad fuel starts to occur in a couple of weeks because it is absorbing water from the air, and ethanol can only take about 4.5%. It will depend on humidity in your area... fuel tanks are all vented at the gas stations....... there is also water in the bottom of those tanks, they dip the tanks to see they are not above the allowed level..... but it has settled out as long as you're not there when the tanker truck is unloading.
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post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 11:12 AM
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The water has 'settled out' as long as your not there when the truck is "unloading", CRAP, that makes me unhappy, how about 3 minutes and 27 seconds AFTER the truck leaves!!!! I know, I am overthinking this, but since I once got a tankful of gas AND water and it was a MAJOR PIA to get it sorted out, I have since been a little paranoid.

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post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philharmonic View Post
The water has 'settled out' as long as your not there when the truck is "unloading", CRAP, that makes me unhappy, how about 3 minutes and 27 seconds AFTER the truck leaves!!!! I know, I am overthinking this, but since I once got a tankful of gas AND water and it was a MAJOR PIA to get it sorted out, I have since been a little paranoid.
Water does not "settle out" of E10 unless there is so much water it starts taking the ethanol out. There are plenty of YouTube videos of people using water to remove ethanol from gasoline. I don't doubt they get a lot of ethanol out, but doubt they get it all, and what remains is 100% saturated with water.

Pure gasoline will not suspend very much water at all. E10 will carry more water than an engine will be happy ingesting.

Sta-Bil et al is primarily naphtha, a component of gasoline that is one of the first to evaporate. It changes things but I don't think anything "fixes" ethanol.

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post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-10-2019, 02:43 AM
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@gtiemak "Speaking of... I'm not a fan of the filler neck and opening to the gas tank. I wish to be a bit more lazy while filling, but the design will punish you quickly if you do not pay attention to how full the tank is becoming while happily pouring away. Complaint for the sake of complaining? Probably. "

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