Semi or Manual - Page 3 - Yamaha FJR Forum : Yamaha FJR Owners Forums
View Poll Results: Semi Auto or Full Manual
Semi Auto 37 14.86%
Manual 212 85.14%
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post #21 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-27-2005, 02:54 PM
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Cant see that this idea of electronic gear shift will be up to much. What happens when your hard accelerate and change up. I mean there is no matching the clutch to the engine speed is there. Unless you get revs spot on, Gona chuck her off the back. Mind you that's tempting at times. Surely smoth change ups are difficult and downs come to think of it.
Dont tell me we all ride and change up as specified in manual. That's dodders stuff that is.
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post #22 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-27-2005, 03:21 PM
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Alman wrote: "What happens when your hard accelerate and change up. I mean there is no matching the clutch to the engine speed is there. Unless you get revs spot on, Gona chuck her off the back. Mind you that's tempting at times. Surely smoth change ups are difficult and downs come to think of it."

I guess this is best answered in this post by Twister on another FJR board. Thanks to Twister for a good description. Since it's original appearance it has been posted on other FJR boards too.

"Sequential Manual Gearbox

Ferrari introduced the notion of modern sequential manual gearboxes on production street machines when it first developed its F1 system for the '95 F355. Similar high-tech race-inspired trannies are now offered by other manufacturers, too. BMW's recently launched this technology on the M3 and has even trademarked the acronym SMG. Other terms frequently applied are "electrohydraulically controlled manual" and "clutchless manual." A mouthful at best, we can see why BMW picked SMG (sequential manual gearbox).

True to its name, the sequential manual gearbox is, from an architectural and engineering standpoint, a true manual transmission. Though there's no clutch pedal, there's definitely a clutch (and some form of flywheel, pressure plate, and throw-out bearing). Depending on the manufacturer, gear shifting is via paddles on the steering column, buttons on the steering wheel, a shifter on the floor, or some combination of the three. But these are merely switches: Computers, solenoids, hydraulics, and some pretty fancy linkage do the shifting.

When a Ferrari driver wants to upshift, he pulls the appropriate paddle. In 25-50 milliseconds (depending on how aggressive a shift is mandated by throttle position, rpm, and other factors), the system backs off the throttle, engages the clutch, makes the shift, disengages the clutch, and reapplies the gas. The best of these systems can execute this mechanical ballet faster than most humans can--without a possible missed shift. The action is much the same for a downshift; virtually all these systems can add in a "throttle blip," so the engine revs can be matched to the lower gear ratio for a smooth shift. They can make everyone look like a great "driver."

All these setups contain safety overrides to ensure the driver knows what gear he's in and won't allow an engine-damaging command. There's also Reverse, of course, and most offer some combination of Winter, Sport, and fully automatic modes. A major advantage of a sequential manual gearbox is that it suffers none of the power-robbing hydraulic losses often associated with conventional, torque converter-equipped automatics. In the case of the new Ferrari 575M Maranello, for example, the company's test numbers show that the F1-system-equipped car can accelerate quicker than one with a conventional six-speed manual gearbox. In this showdown, the computer proves quicker

Yamaha Chip Controlled shifting (YCC-S) is an industry first on a sport touring machine. The most noticeable difference is the lack of a clutch lever on the FJR1300AE. The YCC-S system uses two electronically controlled actuators one for the clutch and one for shifting. The rider has the option of shifting with via a conveniently located handlebar switch or using the conventional foot shifter. The big difference is there is no clutching involved. Shift changes are much smoother than a conventional manual clutch system and the foot shifter effort has been greatly reduced with this new system. The benefit is improved rider comfort do to the elimination of clutch hand fatigue especially in stop and go traffic plus reduced foot shifter effort. NOTE: This system is not an automatic shift system the rider still must shift the bike, but without worrying about the clutch"
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post #23 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-28-2005, 08:50 AM
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I don't know that one could apply the chassis dynamics of an electronic clutch as experienced in a very low, very wide, very long, very tautly sprung in comparrison to a FJR car, to a FJR, not to mention the four big tires at each corner to deal with the demand on traction from aggressive downshifting/accelerating.

I'm sure the Ferrari et al systems work very well, on cars costing 10 + times as much as a FJR, which have been race track developed and proven for over a decade. AFAIK, no Moto-gp or SBK bike uses this system, unlike in F-1 etc, so all auto-bike comparissons are off IMO.

I guess I just can't think out of "the box" on this, as I can't see how a computer can modualte the clutch so the rider won't be in peril in all but straight line accellerating and decellerating on dry pavement with no emergency stops. Sometimes, one needs/wants to engage the clutch when rolling off/on, sometimes one doesn't. How will the computer know the difference?

I'm looking forward to a major investigation by a respectable motorcycle cycle rag of the mechanics involved, and how the bike handles on a race track before casting preference, as I'm hoping it will be a winner for performance riders, not the scooter crowd looking to upgrade.
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post #24 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-28-2005, 10:37 AM
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It'd be interesting to see the response on a poll about increasing alternator output; something they did not address in their list of "user requested" upgrades for 2006.
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post #25 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-28-2005, 05:41 PM
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Poll results are running about 9-to-1 in favor of the heterosexual version of the bike.

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post #26 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-28-2005, 10:43 PM
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The AE system is difficult to understand for those who equate the transmission in the AE to that of a CVT. This bike sure as **** ain't a "scooter"
They are very different.
The gear box still has an engageable neutral so you can go vroom vroom at the lites to impress your date.
The AE system controls the clutch on take off. Very light throttle and the clutch will slip. Go to wot, it bites, hang on because you will be hauling the mail instantly.
You are the entity that chooses the gear to be in at any given time. The computer controls the engine revs and the ignition timing on upshifts and equalises engine and wheel speeds on downshifts. Not sure how this is so different to what we are doing now except the technique will be perfect on every shift and we have no lever to pull or not depending on your personal technique.
To me the FJR is my magic carpet. I use it to go very long distances comfortably. The more user friendly it is for me the longer I can ride. I ordered an O6AE. My 05 will do me just fine until it comes in in May.
I am a lucky guy because I have a couple of different bikes. I use a Burgman 650 for local shopping and an 05 Speed triple for practicing my hi speed techniques as it is lighter and much easier to handle than the FJR in that regard.
Still if I was to have only one bike it would be the AE
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post #27 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 03:51 AM
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Isn't it amazing how much we can talk about a bike none of us have ridden yet, and which none of the magazines have published test rides on either.

All us nay sayers could be wrong, and it is the best thing since sliced bread

but I doubt it
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post #28 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 02:18 PM
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Yea , it could turn out to be a real dog. Reckon that's why I will hang on a bit until every "Must have one" has got one..
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post #29 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-13-2005, 06:05 AM
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My opinion

) Well thats exactly what i thought.
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post #30 of 38 (permalink) Old 12-13-2005, 01:48 PM
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I'd like to see one of the magazines do an honest assessment of the AE when it is available by having a diverse group of riders test it in the city, touring, and doing the Dragon. How about using Kieth Code, Alan Cathcart, Kenny Roberts, a couple of boring-ass IBA guys, and maybe a few riders chosen randomly off the street? The truth will eventually be known on boards like this but a decent mag review would sure help answer a lot of stupid questions.

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