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post #41 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-21-2020, 11:23 PM
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This is real simple Donk, more Cylinders equal more power pulses per crank revolution, the efficiency is Dependent on a lot of things but because you Have more rods/bearings/pistons there is more drag but because those rods/bearings/pistons tend to be smaller & lighter to meet a given displacement requirement generally it also allows a higher rev limit, I think (maybe wrong) but it seems the f1 engines turn 25k+ rpms which again equal more power pulses in a given time frame (Revolutions Per Minute) so the added drag/inefficiencies don’t really offset the added power pulses. The head/intake/exhaust designs really dictate how well the engine uses the fuel it’s given (efficiency).

In the old days most v8 engines were about 60% Efficient but today good race engines are about 80% efficient of how they use the btu’s of energy in a gallon of fuel, Just the way it is. As an aside any given engine’s peak efficiency occurs at their max torque peak, they go hand in hand.

Our fjr’s are really a pretty efficient engine which is why they make the relatively high torque numbers they do along with the pretty good fuel economies, My .02

Steve P
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Ride more,, worry less !

Last edited by passx; 01-21-2020 at 11:29 PM.
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post #42 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-22-2020, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by N4HHE View Post
More cylinders less efficient. More internal friction.
If that were the case then why did all F1 engines go to 16 cylinders before rule changes limited the number of pistons? Given the same displacement more cylinders is more efficient and internal friction is the sum of many more factors than the number of pistons.
Pay attention. Thatís are a lot more factors than friction.

Said before that a smaller cylinder allows higher pressures without detonation. A smaller cylinder has more surface area for cooling. Can get much more HP than the cost of added friction. More HP is almost never more efficient, almost always less efficient. An internal combustion engine is more efficient at 20% of its peak output than at 50%.

As for Formula-1, they donít run anything close to gasoline, 18,000 RPM is common, so lots of things get skewed and do not apply to daily drivers.

2018 F-150 XLT SuperCab 4x4 2.7L
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post #43 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-22-2020, 12:14 AM
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In the old days most v8 engines were about 60% Efficient but today good race engines are about 80% efficient of how they use the btuís of energy in a gallon of fuel, Just the way it is. As an aside any given engineís peak efficiency occurs at their max torque peak, they go hand in hand.
30% is good for modern gasoline engine. Current state of the art production gasoline engine is in the Prius at 38.5%.

Race engines are much worse. They have a quota as yo how much fuel can be used in the race. They strive to use all of it. Will burn more fuel, less efficient, to get more HP. Just so long as they have enough to finish the race.

2018 F-150 XLT SuperCab 4x4 2.7L
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post #44 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-22-2020, 09:29 AM
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🙄🙄🙄🙄,,

Your efficient numbers are by far the lowest I have ever read/studied or tested, how did you come up with those numbers ?

Steve P
Red 2014A, the fastest color !
Ride more,, worry less !
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post #45 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-22-2020, 10:01 AM
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A big bore isn't good as a race engine, pistons are too heavy and the rods can't handle high rpm... you can squeeze more out of a V-12 than a V-8, and it will rev way higher without exploding. Efficiencies...... OK for a race car.
Now adapt that to the street by taming it down so you have nice power curves, throttle responses and fuel mileage...... which is better, a single, V-twin, triple, V4 or inline 4? You all know a bike you can say has one better or more efficient than the other.

Ray
Keep yer stick on the ice....
2014 FJR1300A - Root Beer (sold)
2009 CBF1000A - Sienna Red
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post #46 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-22-2020, 12:28 PM Thread Starter
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efficiency..are you talking horsepower or gas mileage?

My small singles would get over 100 mpg. My P twins would get 60 mph. My I 4's would get 45 mpg.

then again my singles would have less than 10 hp, the twins less than 60 and the I4s anywhere from 65-145.

As far as riding I have always preferred the I-4's for the combo of torque and horsepower, which seems like the most efficient use of a power plant to me.

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It doesn't matter what I ride, where I ride, or how far I ride... it only matters THAT I ride...every day. "Ferret"
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post #47 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-22-2020, 01:06 PM
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It's a safe call when there are dealers with 2016s still sitting on the lot.
We did a 10K mile x-country and back and up into Canada in 2016 and I saw exactly one FJR the entire trip, and that was the one my brother was riding. Tons of HD's, several BMW's, several GW's, and not a single other FJR.

I'd like to see Yamaha produce a true Sport Tourer sacrificing nothing for comfort, tech, performance but all in a 525lb fully fueled curb weight complete w/ side cases. Design would be challenging but I feel doable, and the model below wouldn't be cheap just like high end lighter weight bicycles are anything but cheap. No brand makes it currently and a whole lot of aging riders would love the full on comfort/tech/performance features while losing curb weight.

  • 950cc triple w/ 115hp w/ belt final drive
  • Cornering ABS, Dynamic ESA, ASC, TFT dash
  • Electrically adjustable full height screen, premium comfort seat, CC, heated grips, TPM, neutral ergos
  • I'd like to see aluminum rims w/ right-angle metal valve stems ala BMW this is a very nice feature.
Unlike the 'Sport Tourers' in the video below of 2020 the above concept ST is actually built equally for tour and sport. Many of the others in the video are missing key features of what makes a tourer all-day comfortable for touring. The power:weight ratio of the above ST is the same as FJR1300 but will absolutely outperform FJR in any kind of sport role due to the lighter curb weight plus shaft drive saps energy in the transfer of power to the rear wheel--belt is far more efficient w/ all rotation in the same plane plus bonus they are clean, zero maintenance and far lighter weight. Many older riders appreciate the comfort features of full fledged ST models but don't need the hefty curb weight. I'd sign up for this model by Yamaha tomorrow, selling my beloved 2016 R1200RT.

https://youtu.be/MQARdpMxSNw

Last edited by NoelFJR; 01-22-2020 at 01:08 PM.
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post #48 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-22-2020, 01:20 PM
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I think we're demonstrating that almost every rider has a different idea of what the perfect sport-tourer is... eh?
rbentnail and RobertO2016 like this.

* * Just hanging around until I can ride with Petey, Mack and Rock again. Never forgotten. * *
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post #49 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-22-2020, 02:30 PM
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I think we're demonstrating that almost every rider has a different idea of what the perfect sport-tourer is... eh?
Sure, especially a perfect ST for aging riders. To me you can't call it a 'tourer' by hanging bags on it which seems to be the default notion for any mid-sized ST. My guess is plenty of older riders would clamor for a fully featured ST you could actually ride x-country in comfort on while at the same time whip it thru the canyons. Right now you won't find an electric screen until you get well over 600lbs and there is nothing necessary about this IMO.
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post #50 of 73 (permalink) Old 01-22-2020, 06:47 PM
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Everything you look at has something you'd like to change.... I went for a weight change and got similar ergos to the FJR.... a tweak here and there (windshield, handlebars), add a farkle or two and there's a Terry Adcox seat coming... 520 lbs, 1 liter in line 4 that's smooth everywhere in the range, and goes exactly where you point it, in the twisties, will stay ahead of red FJR's I bet. Loving the loss of weight. Chain driven, not sure I'd convert to a belt at 100HP or more, modern chains are just fine. Anyway, be jealous if you like because it was never sold in the US. Mine is a 2009... in 2010 they restyled it a little with an adjustable windshield.

The new VFR in the video is nice, but my 1999 is the one to have with its gear driven cams. More sport than touring even though they call it sport touring... It came with optional bags and mine has been to NC, CA, etc. and back (by the PO). 550 lbs.

Both of these bikes all done up are one third of the price of a new FJR.








Ray
Keep yer stick on the ice....
2014 FJR1300A - Root Beer (sold)
2009 CBF1000A - Sienna Red
1999 VFR800Fi - Pearl Shining Yellow
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