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OldButNotDead 06-28-2015 08:21 PM

Picking an Oil Filter
 
Ya know picking which oil filter to use should be easy. It should screw on. It should be the right length and diameter. All the guys on all the forums should say it's great. A few years back I got some K&N's because I liked that 17mm nut. Well I got two in a batch which said they fit the bike but the threads were cut wrong (I'm pretty sure they fixed that.) Then I got some Purolator Ones and put them on four different bikes and had no problems at all. So I see this Bosch D3323 and it does everything but feed me a sandwich during the install. Put it on start the bike and have oil all over the floor. It had the plate with the screw in it installed wrong. Got another and it worked fine. Well I go to put another in. Can't find a "D" anywhere but AutoZone had the 3323's. Put it in, go for a ride and at my first stop, oil on the ground. Not a lot but any is too much. Sounds like construction problems like my first D. Well I wound up paying $6 more than the Bosch for a Mobil 1. AutoZone doesn't have Purolator Ones. Only other one that had that would fit was a Fram. I'd rather cram a rag in the hole than use a Fram. It shouldn't be this hard:crying:

road1dog 06-28-2015 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldButNotDead (Post 653130)
Ya know picking which oil filter to use should be easy. It should screw on. It should be the right length and diameter. All the guys on all the forums should say it's great. A few years back I got some K&N's because I liked that 17mm nut. Well I got two in a batch which said they fit the bike but the threads were cut wrong (I'm pretty sure they fixed that.) Then I got some Purolator Ones and put them on four different bikes and had no problems at all. So I see this Bosch D3323 and it does everything but feed me a sandwich during the install. Put it on start the bike and have oil all over the floor. It had the plate with the screw in it installed wrong. Got another and it worked fine. Well I go to put another in. Can't find a "D" anywhere but AutoZone had the 3323's. Put it in, go for a ride and at my first stop, oil on the ground. Not a lot but any is too much. Sounds like construction problems like my first D. Well I wound up paying $6 more than the Bosch for a Mobil 1. AutoZone doesn't have Purolator Ones. Only other one that had that would fit was a Fram. I'd rather cram a rag in the hole than use a Fram. It shouldn't be this hard:crying:



good luck with that shotgun approach .....................

never found ANYTHING better than stock oem

many tests not long ago found similar results

lots o marketing & crap out there

https://www.google.com/search?q=afte...hrome&ie=UTF-8

OldButNotDead 06-28-2015 09:56 PM

Believe it or not some filters ARE better than others. No guys I'm not a Troll starting some BS thread on which filter is best. Over the years there have been some independent tests of filters. Don't think the Purolator One's were the best but up near the top. Fram's were bad and those reusable Scott filters were terrible. I just posted because I was P.O.'d with the Bosch. If you could get it to fit, it should be a good filter. Since Henry Ford started assembly lines a couple of companies have figured out how to make parts "fit" what they were supposed to "fit." K&N had an issue with that and fixed it. Seems like the Bosch boys are having difficulties with the concept.

Mr_Ed 06-28-2015 09:59 PM

I use the Wix 51358 which Wix specifies on its site Click Here.

JohnC 06-28-2015 10:46 PM

I order my Purolator Ones from Amazon.

Smokin Joe 06-29-2015 12:45 AM

I like the K&Ns mainly for their good reputation in aftermarket filters, but the 17mm nut was a deal maker. I also got fed up with those other brands that never seemed to seat right and an oil on my garage floor is completely unacceptable. I also got a good deal on Amazon when I purchased 6 of "em.

OldButNotDead 06-29-2015 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smokin Joe (Post 653250)
I like the K&Ns mainly for their good reputation in aftermarket filters, but the 17mm nut was a deal maker. I also got fed up with those other brands that never seemed to seat right and an oil on my garage floor is completely unacceptable. I also got a good deal on Amazon when I purchased 6 of "em.

That's what I intend to do. Might get Purolators though unless they are still that fugly yellow color. :smile2:

MadRussian 06-29-2015 08:21 AM

I get 20% discount at local Yamaha dealer, so I picked up a few OEM filters when I bought the bike.
Dealer did 600 miles service, but I had a **** of the time getting old filter off, (had to use screwdriver to punch a hole to get it off), which makes me wonder if they even changed oil at all. (after 4k miles oil was dark)

I will never have dealer do anything but warranty work from here on.

Pterodactyl 06-29-2015 09:42 AM

When you drain the oil and change the filter there is still about a quart of old oil left in an FJR motor / clutch / transmission. The new oil turns darker pretty quickly. Now then, that should keep the anal retentive riders awake at night. :surprise:

OldButNotDead 06-29-2015 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pterodactyl (Post 653338)
When you drain the oil and change the filter there is still about a quart of old oil left in an FJR motor / clutch / transmission. The new oil turns darker pretty quickly. Now then, that should keep the anal retentive riders awake at night. :surprise:

I spent a year sitting in the Fulda Gap dreaming about a Yamaha XS650 back in 1971. Even had a model of it on my nightstand. On the back cover IIRC of Cycle World was an advertisement for it where a guy rode it around the outside of Australia and hadn't changed the oil since he bought it. When the oil did come out it stacked up on the ground like a Frosty from Wendy's. Maybe oil is over rated.:grin2:

Pterodactyl 06-29-2015 12:22 PM

The Fulda Gap... now that brings back memories. Guess we did a good job; Warsaw Pact never even gave it a try. :wink2:

R!der 06-29-2015 12:51 PM

The past few bikes I've had worked with Mobil 1 M110 filter and it seemed to do well. Never had a seal problem. I make sure the seat is clean and wipe the O-ring/seal with fresh oil before installing.

Mr_Ed 06-29-2015 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldButNotDead (Post 653362)
I spent a year sitting in the Fulda Gap dreaming about a Yamaha XS650 back in 1971. Even had a model of it on my nightstand. On the back cover IIRC of Cycle World was an advertisement for it where a guy rode it around the outside of Australia and hadn't changed the oil since he bought it. When the oil did come out it stacked up on the ground like a Frosty from Wendy's. Maybe oil is over rated.:grin2:

When my wife and I married she was driving an early 60s Chevy II that she'd gotten from her grandmother. I asked them when the oil had been changed, and they both just shrugged their shoulders. So I slid in under it and pulled the plug -- nothing. I had to poke up into the drain hole with a screwdriver to make the sludge come out that it was using for oil.

Maybe it is overraged :)

MrZappo 06-29-2015 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pterodactyl (Post 653338)
When you drain the oil and change the filter there is still about a quart of old oil left in an FJR motor / clutch / transmission. The new oil turns darker pretty quickly. Now then, that should keep the anal retentive riders awake at night. :surprise:

Holy mother of god man !!! Say it isn't so !!!!! My oil is contaminated !!!

I need slick 50 !!!!! I need Prolong !!!

Just run the engine for 5 minutes with a 50/50 blend of water and olive oil before putting the new oil in and you will be good to go ...


:frown2:

MrZappo 06-29-2015 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R!der (Post 653394)
The past few bikes I've had worked with Mobil 1 M110 filter and it seemed to do well. Never had a seal problem. I make sure the seat is clean and wipe the O-ring/seal with fresh oil before installing.

M110's work perfectly and are extended drain filters so it makes the obsessive side of me feel better about skipping a filter for every other oil change.

Does any of it really matter ? No ... But i need to feed that "other guy" in my head ... There ... I said it ..

Pterodactyl 06-29-2015 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrZappo (Post 653490)
Holy mother of god man !!! Say it isn't so !!!!! My oil is contaminated !!!

I need slick 50 !!!!! I need Prozac !!!

Just run the engine for 5 minutes with a 50/50 blend of water and olive oil before putting the new oil in and you will be good to go ...


:frown2:

Fixed.

R!der 06-29-2015 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldButNotDead (Post 653362)
I spent a year sitting in the Fulda Gap dreaming about a Yamaha XS650 back in 1971. Even had a model of it on my nightstand. On the back cover IIRC of Cycle World was an advertisement for it where a guy rode it around the outside of Australia and hadn't changed the oil since he bought it. When the oil did come out it stacked up on the ground like a Frosty from Wendy's. Maybe oil is over rated.:grin2:

I melted the pistons in my XS650 due to lack of oil. Then I topped that off by selling it to a friend for $50. Not be outdone, he literally tossed it in a dumpster.

FjrjrF 06-29-2015 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrZappo (Post 653490)
Holy mother of god man !!! Say it isn't so !!!!! My oil is contaminated !!!

I need slick 50 !!!!! I need Prolong !!!

Just run the engine for 5 minutes with a 50/50 blend of water and olive oil before putting the new oil in and you will be good to go ...


:frown2:

Wify tells me vinegar and water cleans REAL good, gunna try dat nixt time. Ha, thanks for the laugh!

FjrjrF 06-29-2015 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smokin Joe (Post 653250)
I like the K&Ns mainly for their good reputation in aftermarket filters, but the 17mm nut was a deal maker. I also got fed up with those other brands that never seemed to seat right and an oil on my garage floor is completely unacceptable. I also got a good deal on Amazon when I purchased 6 of "em.

Same here, the welded nut is my kryptonite. I don't care what good/bad is spoken/written with K&N oil filters, my oil comes out clean when changed, and the nut allows perfect removal and torque on install. Used for 20 years, never a problem.

CRBND8D 06-29-2015 07:44 PM

Not good! Have been using the D3323 since the first oil change. Without a hitch. Will be keeping a 'closer eye' now. Here's to hoping, if it was a production problem, it was a one time, and limited one.

OldButNotDead 06-30-2015 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRBND8D (Post 653602)
Not good! Have been using the D3323 since the first oil change. Without a hitch. Will be keeping a 'closer eye' now. Here's to hoping, if it was a production problem, it was a one time, and limited one.

I got a response from Bosch. They said the filter was designed for cars not bikes. This was my response. I think it about covers it.

Thanks Raymond, but I've been around automotive products for a few days, more like 50 years. That filter cross references about a dozen other filters from Wix, Purolator, Mobil 1, etc, etc. Unlike cartridge filters, spin on's fit lots of vehicles. Those other filters that the 3323 and D3323 match, have worked on five motorcycles and three cars I have owned. The majority of motorcycle spin of filters are car filters. What this means to me is that the Bosch filters have some loose manufacturing specs when it comes to the container of the filter. That was especially true on my first issue with the D3323. You could measure the difference between the threads and the rubber seal on the defective one and the rest of the filters on the shelf. I'll be passing this information on to the MC community.

Mr_Ed 06-30-2015 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldButNotDead (Post 653866)
I got a response from Bosch. They said the filter was designed for cars not bikes. This was my response. I think it about covers it.

Thanks Raymond, but I've been around automotive products for a few days, more like 50 years. That filter cross references about a dozen other filters from Wix, Purolator, Mobil 1, etc, etc. Unlike cartridge filters, spin on's fit lots of vehicles. Those other filters that the 3323 and D3323 match, have worked on five motorcycles and three cars I have owned. The majority of motorcycle spin of filters are car filters. What this means to me is that the Bosch filters have some loose manufacturing specs when it comes to the container of the filter. That was especially true on my first issue with the D3323. You could measure the difference between the threads and the rubber seal on the defective one and the rest of the filters on the shelf. I'll be passing this information on to the MC community.

Thanks for sharing. I contacted them as well with the picture of both concave and convex and never got a response.

I don't have near the expertise a lot of you guys do, so I've always been a little hesitant to use a filter just because it fits. When I decided to use Wix I went to their web page and looked up the filter for my bike. If it hadn't been there, I'd have done something else.

road1dog 06-30-2015 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FjrjrF (Post 653538)
Wify tells me vinegar and water cleans REAL good, gunna try dat nixt time. Ha, thanks for the laugh!


seriously hope you guys are joking

there are places in an engine that dont drain well

there are places that cavitate & maybe there are air pockets

truly OLD / AGED oil will grow microbes / fauna / acids
you really dont want to run that back up into the engine

using a thin weight oil at a high temperature will clean an engine well

to clean a sump if youre NOT going to drop the pan

use cheap thin oil at very high temps.......220-240 degrees
pour in 6 quarts that will have a level higher than the standard 4 quarts .........drain then pour in 6 quarts
kerosene at very high degrees

DO NOT RUN ENGINE !!!!!
running the engine flows detritus up INTO the engine

HIGH DEGREES obtained from heating with boiling water NO OPEN FLAMES

even tho the engine hasnt been run for an extended period o time
last time it ran more than likely it drained most o the oil back to the sump ................................

after the kerosene replace with oil run engine as hot as possible
at a fast idle there is little load on the engine
high temp for a few minutes is Not usually detrimental

the sump will be clean
new oil will flow & flush
the new filter will do ALL the work

if the lifters pump up & quiet down
good oil pressure on a gauge
no miracles performed

better NOT to pump old oil up into the engine

OldButNotDead 06-30-2015 11:46 AM

Hey dog,
Good write up, but how often do you think ya need to do something like that? My 2014 was on its third change when I dumped it the other day. Old oil was in there between 3 and 4K. It was dark brown but it sure wasn't like chocolate milk. Yes, the man said there is maybe a quart of oil lurking inside that engine. That sounds like a lot, maybe not. But in any event the new stuff will wash out the old. If your anal about oil like me get good stuff and change filters every time you change oil. Oh, BTW, oil will change colors to a dark brown because of the heat of the engine. Ever think we just might worry about oil too much????

Note: pretty soon I'll be going to 8K oil changes. This change was a preemptive strike because I'm going to do some rides where the miles will accumulate when I'm in no man's land and don't want to be thinking about changing oil or tires or other stuff.

Mr_Ed 06-30-2015 11:54 AM

I was sort of wondering how you'd get all the kerosene out if there's still a quart of liquid in the engine after draining.

OldButNotDead 06-30-2015 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Ed (Post 653978)
I was sort of wondering how you'd get all the kerosene out if there's still a quart of liquid in the engine after draining.

Turn it upside down and shake it :grin2:

road1dog 06-30-2015 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Ed (Post 653978)
I was sort of wondering how you'd get all the kerosene out if there's still a quart of liquid in the engine after draining.

please read carefully
this is NOT complicated at all .................

when you shut your engine down there is a residual amount left up near valves etc
not much at all actually in most engines a cup or less
if NO gunk / varnish / sludge
that residual cup UP IN the engine should NOT cause issues
later when new GOOD oil starts to circulate

NEVER run old bad oil back up into the engine ! ! ! ! ! !! !

by running HOT oil down a metal funnel into the sump
it will melt the old oil
by using MORE than whats in there it will also usually
be high enuf to touch the pump

thereby giving it a cleaning also

D R A I N ! ! ! ! ! DO NOT TURN ENGINE OVER ! ! ! !

the HOT kerosene will C L E A N EVERYTHING ! ! ! !
drain & remove ALL oil & detritus

there again the 6 quarts HOT KERO down a metal funnel
clears out old new oil &/ fauna etc

let sit & drain ........................ DO NOT RUN ENGINE ! ! !

when you then pour in good oil
id use a good brand 10 weight run for short distance .......
a few hundred miles new filter

DRAIN ..................... see what you have
if done properly youll have not bad oil

or funky which means 2 things
you didnt follow what is easy to do
or the engine was a window planter

either way if you dont want to tear down have the bike apart
youre only out the cost od 12quarts cheap oil
6 quarts of kero & a complete saturady

on the center stand the remedy oil & the kero will
drain rather freely out the sump

dont know what your goin to turn upside down & shake??????????????????
dont know WHY there would be a quart of Kero left in engine
[ i never said leave a quart in engine ]

if you know what youre going to p/u & shake.......let me sell tickets
otherwise if the engine is out the bike remove sump + valve covers clean......
put back together

USE NO OPEN FLAMES TO HEAT OIL OR KERO
WATER BOILS AT 212 TO 220 = plenty hot !!!!!
use cheap pans 1 with enuf water to boil

the other that will fit inside the first pan with 6 quartz oil & then kero
please dont burn yourself

use gloves
metal funnel
cheap $1.50 oil
cheap kero

MrZappo 06-30-2015 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldButNotDead (Post 653970)
Hey dog,
Good write up, but how often do you think ya need to do something like that? My 2014 was on its third change when I dumped it the other day. Old oil was in there between 3 and 4K. It was dark brown but it sure wasn't like chocolate milk. Yes, the man said there is maybe a quart of oil lurking inside that engine. That sounds like a lot, maybe not. But in any event the new stuff will wash out the old. If your anal about oil like me get good stuff and change filters every time you change oil. Oh, BTW, oil will change colors to a dark brown because of the heat of the engine. Ever think we just might worry about oil too much????

Note: pretty soon I'll be going to 8K oil changes. This change was a preemptive strike because I'm going to do some rides where the miles will accumulate when I'm in no man's land and don't want to be thinking about changing oil or tires or other stuff.


No disrespect intended but aren't we pole vaulting over mouse turds here ? Are we really considering the prospect of running kerosene through an engine and measuring temperatures etc ?

No doubt that the engine would be squeaky clean but isn't the goal here to find REASONABLE solutions to our problems ?

Guys get 200k-300k out of these engines by just changing the oil with good quality oil at twice the recommended interval.

I get the desire to do everything "perfectly" but man, seriously ?

The answer to your inquiry "how often do you think ya need to do something like that?", respectfully, the answer is a NEVER ...

If any bike ever needs that level of maintenance, I'm finding a new hobby ... :wink2:

Mr_Ed 06-30-2015 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrZappo (Post 654098)
If any bike ever needs that level of maintenance, I'm finding a new hobby ... :wink2:

Bingo! :wink2:

sbixby 06-30-2015 03:26 PM

<speechless>

Mr_Ed 06-30-2015 03:37 PM

OK. I'm gonna say it.

If the old oil is bad enough that the engine needs that kind of cleaning you waited way too long to change it. The trick is to get it out before it gets that bad. Opinions vary in that respect, but if the oil that's in it is so bad that one quart of it can't be mixed with a gallon of new stuff and still be fine, you waited too long.

MrZappo 06-30-2015 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by road1dog (Post 654082)

when you then pour in good oil
id use a good brand 10 weight run for short distance .......
a few hundred miles new filter



Ill try to tread lightly here but had to say something ..

These bikes are designed for multi-grade oil 10w40 or 20w50 or quite frankly anything similar within that range ...

And they are 10w for a SHORT TIME ... Becoming 40w or 50w at operating temp which is 99.99% of the life of the engine. Actually a very fast change as the internals of the engine heat up ...

The recommendation to run 10w straight weight oil for A FEW HUNDRED MILES" is quite honestly so "out there" that I have to wonder if it is a joke ...

This would NO DOUBT void any warranties that ever existed for your bike .. Try telling your dealer that you ran 10 weight for a few hundred miles and see what they say ...

Any perceived benefit you got from "cleaning" the engine in this manner would undoubtedly be counteracted by the internal damage of the cleaning process ...

DO NOT DO THIS ... Again, DO NOT DO THIS ... Seriously, DO NOT DO THIS ...

A simple idea that I learned long ago was that "engineers know what they are doing" ... Just put in what they say at an interval that they say and your bike will outlast you ..

Not trying to be an ass but people read this stuff on forums and sometimes do what is written ... It is irresponsible to document stuff like this that would void a warranty and potentially damage the bike ...

I'm sure that there will be disagreement and in the event there is, don't bother posting, call 1-800-yamaha and ask them ...

R!der 06-30-2015 04:49 PM

I've only done this on high mileage cars, add a quart of ATF about 100 miles before the next oil change and drive on the freeway, then change when hot and let it drain completely. ATF has a lot of detergents.

If I was really worried about my FJR, I'd do early oil changes. I'm not that worried.

Liquidsilver 06-30-2015 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrZappo (Post 654098)
If any bike ever needs that level of maintenance, I'm finding a new hobby ... :wink2:

+1000


...or you can just change the oil once in a while and then go riding.

dfsfjr 06-30-2015 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liquidsilver (Post 654226)
+1000


...or you can just change the oil once in a while and then go riding.

"amen"

Pterodactyl 06-30-2015 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by road1dog (Post 654082)
please read carefully
this is NOT smart at all .................

when you shut your engine down there is a residual amount left up near valves etc
not much at all actually in most engines a cup or less
if NO gunk / varnish / sludge
that residual cup UP IN the engine should NOT cause issues
later when new GOOD oil starts to circulate

NEVER run old bad oil back up into the engine ! ! ! ! ! !! !

by running HOT oil down a metal funnel into the sump
it will melt the old oil
by using MORE than whats in there it will also usually
be high enuf to touch the pump

thereby giving it a cleaning also

D R A I N ! ! ! ! ! DO NOT TURN ENGINE OVER ! ! ! !

the HOT kerosene will C L E A N EVERYTHING ! ! ! !
drain & remove ALL oil & detritus

there again the 6 quarts HOT KERO down a metal funnel
clears out old new oil &/ fauna etc

let sit & drain ........................ DO NOT RUN ENGINE ! ! !

when you then pour in good oil
id use a good brand 10 weight run for short distance .......
a few hundred miles new filter

DRAIN ..................... see what you have
if done properly youll have not bad oil

or funky which means 2 things
you didnt follow what is easy to do
or the engine was a window planter

either way if you dont want to tear down have the bike apart
youre only out the cost od 12quarts cheap oil
6 quarts of kero & a complete saturady

on the center stand the remedy oil & the kero will
drain rather freely out the sump

dont know what your goin to turn upside down & shake??????????????????
dont know WHY there would be a quart of Kero left in engine
[ i never said leave a quart in engine ]

if you know what youre going to p/u & shake.......let me sell tickets
otherwise if the engine is out the bike remove sump + valve covers clean......
put back together

USE NO OPEN FLAMES TO HEAT OIL OR KERO
WATER BOILS AT 212 TO 220 = plenty hot !!!!!
use cheap pans 1 with enuf water to boil

the other that will fit inside the first pan with 6 quartz oil & then kero
please dont burn yourself

use gloves
metal funnel
cheap $1.50 oil
cheap kero

Tidied that right up for ya. Sounds like something my grandpa would do to his old Packard,

Threebean 06-30-2015 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Ed (Post 654130)
Bingo! :wink2:

+1. Though to be honest I did not thoroughly ready dog's posts. The formatting makes my head hurt.

rbentnail 07-01-2015 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pterodactyl (Post 654282)
Tidied that right up for ya. Sounds like something my grandpa would do to his old Packard,

+1. Back in the day (you know- oil came in cans and you had a spout for it) when non-detergent oil was prevalent we'd add about a qt of kerosene, diesel fuel, #2 fuel oil, etc. to the cold engine, run 'til warm then change the oil & filter. These days, unless you run way, way, way too many miles repeatedly between changes, don't bother.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Quak...-/351441418025

OldButNotDead 07-01-2015 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pterodactyl (Post 654282)
Tidied that right up for ya. Sounds like something my grandpa would do to his old Packard,

Ya know there ain't too many of us still around who can say they actually saw things like Packard's, LaSalle's, DeSoto's etc actually being used for normal transportation.

Mr_Ed 07-01-2015 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldButNotDead (Post 654522)
Ya know there ain't too many of us still around who can say they actually saw things like Packard's, LaSalle's, DeSoto's etc actually being used for normal transportation.

You got that right. I remember my dad owned a Packard, and my best friend had a DeSoto. We nearly killed ourselves trying to get the lug nuts off the front left when he had a flat. :serious:


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