The Engine Oil Thread - Page 3 - Yamaha FJR Forum : Yamaha FJR Owners Forums
 66Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #21 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-09-2020, 11:04 PM
Senior Member
High-G FJR Junkie!
 
N4HHE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Madison, AL
Posts: 2,385
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaYzerman View Post
I used Motul 7000 a coupla times. Expensive but I was leaving it in the bike for a longer than normal trip. Ester added, and that perty red dye. Is not ester synthetic, and wouldn't it be reasonable to assume the oil makers have to have some content of synthetic esters. If it says synthetic on the label, have we been lied to all these years?
Historically boutique motorcycle oils have been weak in detergent for expecting short oil drain intervals. Lack of detergent keeps the oil prettier, longer, in the engine. Many have been aghast at how black Rotella-T turns almost immediately after using exotic boutique motorcycle oils. Rotella was only cleaning up the junk the others left behind. The multiuse diesel/gasoline Rotella-T has lots of detergent for black diesel soot.

Quote:
I use Amzoil synthetic a lot..... what have I been paying for? Who makes Amzoil's oil anyway?
Amsoil is one of the 3 or 4 who make synthetic base oil. Mobil, Total, probably Shell, one of the Swedish companies, and Amsoil. Possibly Bel-Ray and other little guys. Not Castrol who has always been a blender not a refiner or manufacturer.

Sadly, Amsoil really does make exceptional motor oil but is sullied by Amway-derived marketing.

Marketeers control the US Department of Commerce and the same in every other country. You might note how direct comparison of motor oil products is forbidden in advertising. Years ago some barely got around this by claiming "Motor oil C did this, and motor oil P did that!" thinly disguising the manufacturers. Manufacturers can only claim to "meet or exceed" industry specifications. Can not directly claim their product is better than another. Marketing works very hard to make the consumer's imagination believe things that were not really said.

Amsoil's heavily marketed failure "Lifetime Oil Change" of about 30 years ago used a no-detergent oil which always stayed pretty honey colored in the mistaken belief an exotic oil filter would capture all the crud. Didn't work. The oil stayed in spec as claimed but the engines sludged to the point of failure. "Dirty" motor oil is good. It means the crud is coming out with the drain and not staying inside the engine. Motor oil does not make the discoloration, it collects it from combustion blowby.
jamwr and Ace Handler like this.

2018 F-150 XLT SuperCab 4x4 2.7L
2016 FJR1300A
2016 Beta 430 RS
2016 Subaru Outback
2013 Tesla Model S 85
2009 Husaberg FE450
1983 Porsche 928S
N4HHE is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-10-2020, 03:21 AM
Senior Member
High-G FJR Junkie!
 
JohnC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Corinth, TX just south of Denton on I35E
Posts: 3,045
Yamaha must build a pretty tight engine then. After 4 to 6 thousand miles, the Rotella T6 looks bout like it did when I poured it in. The final drive oil on the other hand . . .



Quote:
Originally Posted by N4HHE View Post
Might as well argue which color FJR is the fastest, there is no performance standard required of a motorcycle to be blue, or red, or yellow.
No argument. Red is the fastest color. The polymers in red dye give the paint a slightly lower drag coefficient than the other colors. Why do you think so many Ducatis are red?


Read it on the internet. OTOH, I also read on the internet that the Earth is flat.
N4HHE and Ace Handler like this.

Time spent looking at motorcycles, even Harleys, is never wasted.

2013 FJR1300A
1984 GPz750
Series III fairing removal:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
JohnC is offline  
post #23 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-10-2020, 06:38 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
Farkle Trainee
 
Donk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Burlington WI & Wellington FL
Posts: 364
You see my illogic works. @N4HHE says AMSOIL is an exceptional oil. I donít believe he has ever said anything positive about another oil synthetic or dino. He only says synthetic may or may not really be synthetic which by the way is correct. Everyone has an argument why their choice of oil is best based on something that has to do with bikes. I switched from Yamalube to Amsoil because itís headquarters are in Superior WI. I like Wisconsin lots of good things come from Wisconsin such as beer, cheese, The Packers, and my wife. So the heck with putting Yamalube in the Ducati. Iím going to buy another Yamaha to use it in. It will be cheaper in the long run. In the meantime Iím going to change my oil using Amsoil, have a beer and some cheese curds, watch reruns of the Packers wearing a Farve shirt, and kiss my wife who puts up with my motorcycle passion, obsession, insanity whatever it is. All after I meet a friend for a morning ride. Lifeís good, be happy😊

Just because I canít leave well enough alone does anyone know for sure who makes Yamalube? I have heard/been led to believe that Yamaha has their own lab and it is somehow affiliated with Petronas.
JohnC likes this.

The resident KTM owner.

Ď14 FJR (sold)
Ď13 990 SMT
Ď15 1290 Super Adventure T
Donk is offline  
 
post #24 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-10-2020, 06:47 AM
Senior Member
High-G FJR Junkie!
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas
Posts: 2,123
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaYzerman View Post
I used Motul 7000 a coupla times. Expensive but I was leaving it in the bike for a longer than normal trip. Ester added, and that perty red dye. Is not ester synthetic, and wouldn't it be reasonable to assume the oil makers have to have some content of synthetic esters. If it says synthetic on the label, have we been lied to all these years?

I use Amzoil synthetic a lot..... what have I been paying for? Who makes Amzoil's oil anyway?

So many questions, so few answers and zero qualified experts in any oil thread and absolutely there's a bunch of marketing-speak in the industry.
I've been under the impression that Amsoil makes Amsoil's oil.

I do use Amsoil, but I started primarily because a friend became a dealer, and I wanted to help. I have continued because it's so danged convenient; I can place an order today and have it tomorrow freight free.

My preferred customer membership is due in October, and I'm giving some serious thought to stopping it and just going to any of the other quality products, but I've just gotten so used to just logging on and ordering exactly what I need on my doorstep the next day.

Just keepin' up with traffic, Officer.

'13 FJR1300
'99 ZRX1100
Mr_Ed is offline  
post #25 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-10-2020, 07:29 AM
Senior Member
High-G FJR Junkie!
 
RaYzerman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Millgrove, ON, CA
Posts: 6,929
Well, let's just say we don't see FJRs wearing out any sooner or later no matter what oil they were using, or at least we can't prove it without a whole lot more data. If the lubrication properties are there, it will work. We change the oil in our bikes more frequently than we really need to, the oil doesn't wear out. The dirt is all filtered smaller than can harm the engine.... how many change their filter every other oil change? Not that many I'd guess.

We've seen guys using car oils in bikes and the cry about ruining your clutch comes up. How many ruined clutches have actually been the case? I'd still use M/C oil though, just me. I may falsely believe they are formulated not to break down as fast while being chewed up by the transmission.

As for those who change final drive oil every oil change, it's totally not necessary... you don't do that in your car do you? Same stuff. Once a year plenty.
So, I think today, I'm not going to participate in any more oil threads, not that I don't like a good intelligent debate. We should take a lesson from the V-STrom forum... "There will be one and one only oil thread (it is huge), and all others will be deleted".
Mr_Ed, N4HHE and Ace Handler like this.

Ray
Keep yer stick on the ice....
2014 FJR1300A - Root Beer (sold)
2009 CBF1000A - Sienna Red
1999 VFR800Fi - Pearl Shining Yellow
RaYzerman is offline  
post #26 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-10-2020, 08:02 AM
Senior Member
High-G FJR Junkie!
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Rolling Prairie, Ind
Posts: 2,857
Quote:
Originally Posted by N4HHE View Post
There are no contractual differences. There is nothing binding the manufacturer to offer a superior product with the "synthetic" label. There is nothing a "synthetic" motor oil has to prove other than greater-than-refined effort was made during manufacture. There is no requirement for a superior result. This is what I have been saying when I say, "There are no performance standards an oil must meet to be sold as synthetic." Might as well argue which color FJR is the fastest, there is no performance standard required of a motorcycle to be blue, or red, or yellow.

Synthetic manufacturing processes can make a superior motor oil but use of synthetic processes is no assurance of a superior product.

"I use full syn! (sic) Only the best for my engine!" is a statement of ignorance. Is stating willingness to throw money at the problem but no assurance of getting superior product.
So, I take that youíve tested different synthetics vs conventional oils in a controlled lab environment for temperature & wear complianceís and after testing it from -40 to +300f youíve analyzed it for content and how well it held up ?

Steve P
Red 2014A, the fastest color !
Ride more,, worry less !
passx is offline  
post #27 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-10-2020, 08:29 AM
Senior Member
Farkle Trainee
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Houston
Posts: 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by N4HHE View Post
Yes. Because they can not demonstrate any requirement of performance for being synthetic. For example Ford WSS-M2C946-B1 is a very specific document of performance tests. Doesn't say how the oil must be made only what the oil must do. Not all Mobil-1 meets this spec yet every time Ford mentions this spec they suggest one use Ford Motorcraft Semi-synthetic.

"Synthetic" has no definition other than how an oil is made. That is the result of Mobil-1 vs Castrol. The case was "held" in private court of binding arbitration before the National Advertising Division of the Better Business Bureau.
Thanks for your insight.
N4HHE likes this.

Jim
-------------------------------------
2017 Yamaha FJR1300 ES
2018 Honda CBR1000rr
2020 Kawasaki 1000SX
jjscsix is offline  
post #28 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-10-2020, 08:56 AM
Senior Member
Farkle Trainee
 
Gitbox's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Maryland
Posts: 441
Here's a snippet I thought was interesting on MachineryLubrication.com: https://www.machinerylubrication.com...etic-oil-31800

"There have been numerous studies over the years comparing synthetic oil to conventional mineral oil. Most notably the American Automobile Association (AAA) used certified labs using American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) standardized test methods to examine differences in engine oils marketed as conventional versus those marketed as full synthetic.

Among other things, AAA found that, on average, synthetic oils outperformed conventional oils by 47 percent in the conducted tests. The selected tests evaluated several important physical, chemical and performance properties including shear stability, deposit formation, volatility, cold-temperature pumpability, oxidation resistance, and oxidation-induced rheological (viscosity) changes."

One thing is certain, if the word "oil" is in the thread title, there will be multiple pages of responses.
passx and Ace Handler like this.

Robin
2008 Yamaha FJR1300A
2004 Yamaha FJR1300 (sold)
2000 Kawasaki Concours (sold)
...etc.
Gitbox is offline  
post #29 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-10-2020, 09:22 AM
Senior Member
Farkle Trainee
 
Rumblestrip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: NC, USA Earth
Posts: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaYzerman View Post
... "There will be one and one only oil thread (it is huge), and all others will be deleted".
I second that motion..... make it so !!!
RaYzerman likes this.

ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ

2013 Stone Grey

Last edited by Rumblestrip; 06-10-2020 at 11:45 AM.
Rumblestrip is offline  
post #30 of 75 (permalink) Old 06-10-2020, 09:30 AM
Senior Member
High-G FJR Junkie!
 
bounce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 3,493
Quote:
Originally Posted by N4HHE View Post
Amsoil's heavily marketed failure "Lifetime Oil Change" of about 30 years ago used a no-detergent oil which always stayed pretty honey colored in the mistaken belief an exotic oil filter would capture all the crud. Didn't work. The oil stayed in spec as claimed but the engines sludged to the point of failure. "Dirty" motor oil is good. It means the crud is coming out with the drain and not staying inside the engine. Motor oil does not make the discoloration, it collects it from combustion blowby.

Sure sounds like my early 70s learning curve with Penzoil. Slugiest engines EVAAAAH!
N4HHE likes this.

Ridden wet. Put up hard.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bounce is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Yamaha FJR Forum : Yamaha FJR Owners Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome