Which steering stem wrench is this? - Page 5 - Yamaha FJR Forum : Yamaha FJR Owners Forums
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post #41 of 51 (permalink) Old 03-19-2018, 11:56 PM
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And the big elephant in the living room: when was the last time your torque wrench calibrated?

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post #42 of 51 (permalink) Old 03-20-2018, 02:56 AM
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N4HHE,


Theoretical you are right about the lateral force. When you apply a force at the end of a wrench, this force does two things. It applies a moment (arm x force) and a lateral force to the socket/nut/bolt equal to your applied force but in opposite direction. This force will be lower with a longer wrench and higher with a shorter wrench for one particular moment. The lateral (radial force to the threads) force will only cause some friction in the threads reducing the moment slightly. This must not be mixed with the friction caused by the axial force in the threads. The example below has nothing to do with the threads itself, it would also be the same turning a shaft in a slide bearing.
An example: Moment 30 Nm, wrench length 0.5m. Nut/bolt diameter 0.025m (25mm), frictional coefficient 0.15.

Lateral (radial) force = 30Nm/0.5m = 60N. Frictional force (or tangential force) in nut/bolt= 60Nx0.15 = 9 N.
Reduced moment caused by friction = 9N x 0.0125m=0.113 Nm. (0.0125m is radius of nut/bolt threads)

In other words, this can fully be ignored. To ensure a correct moment, I agree with the previous post, what about the calibration of the torque wrench?.

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Last edited by rogerf; 03-20-2018 at 03:58 AM.
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post #43 of 51 (permalink) Old 03-20-2018, 09:53 AM Thread Starter
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I just got it actually, but it's not the most expensive.




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post #44 of 51 (permalink) Old 03-20-2018, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerf View Post
N4HHE,


Theoretical you are right about the lateral force. When you apply a force at the end of a wrench, this force does two things. It applies a moment (arm x force) and a lateral force to the socket/nut/bolt equal to your applied force but in opposite direction. This force will be lower with a longer wrench and higher with a shorter wrench for one particular moment. The lateral (radial force to the threads) force will only cause some friction in the threads reducing the moment slightly.
That is true only if the handle and the nut are in the same plane. In the real world the socket offsets handle and nut resulting in a twist to lift one side of the socket off the nut which usually mars the nut in the process.

Calibration? I use a 45 year old Craftsman beam torque wrench! +-100, pretty hard to read closer than 5.

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post #45 of 51 (permalink) Old 03-20-2018, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Joel S. View Post
why not get the socket and be done with it ?
the socket is super easy to use, don't need much clearance to use.
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Because the socket is $44 and the socket is $20, you can call me cheap but I've dropped 15K on my FJR this year and I'm looking for deals.
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I bit the bullet and bought a socket, my sincere apologies to @Bernie , that spanner is indeed piece of garbage. I got this one instead of the most expensive one, looks hand made by the seller. I'll let you guys know tomorrow how it works out.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Steering-St...JT-rH8&vxp=mtr
LOL, told you the socket was the way to fly,

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post #46 of 51 (permalink) Old 03-20-2018, 11:35 AM Thread Starter
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LOL, told you the socket was the way to fly,
Live and learn.
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post #47 of 51 (permalink) Old 03-20-2018, 05:54 PM Thread Starter
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Just re-did it, the difference between one person with the spanner and two with the socket is night and day. We also had his torque wrench for reference. Overall I'd say the screwy angles and forces involved with the spanner do lead me to believe there might be something to my theory that the FJR's steering head issues are related to that bullshit spanner they tell you to use. Personally I'd say the spanner tightens too much, but then again this is the same guy that insisted on using the spanner so I'm just some dude with an opinion.

One thing is for sure, @N4HHE was spot on about Brian's videos and I won't be referencing his tutorials for important stuff like that anymore.

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post #48 of 51 (permalink) Old 03-20-2018, 09:38 PM
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if the distance from the star to the square for the torque wrench changes, then the torque value most definitely changes. it is all about mechanical advantage.
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post #49 of 51 (permalink) Old 03-20-2018, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
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if the distance from the star to the square for the torque wrench changes, then the torque value most definitely changes. it is all about mechanical advantage.
That's what I though and still do but there's too much math here to dispute it so I did what they said to.
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post #50 of 51 (permalink) Old 03-21-2018, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by wkndwanderer View Post
if the distance from the star to the square for the torque wrench changes, then the torque value most definitely changes. it is all about mechanical advantage.
I understand you finding it hard to believe but a torque is a pair of countering forces, not a single force at the end of a lever. In engineering "torque" is the measure of a couple.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Couple_(mechanics) says:
"In rigid body mechanics, force couples are free vectors, meaning their effects on a body are independent of the point of application."
That says it doesn't matter whether applied at the star or the hook.

On the other hand I am coming to believe few should be allowed to use ratchets or torque wrenches without a 6" extension because you are using the wrench wrong. Handle and nut/bolt are not in the same plane so a simple force on the handle results in one couple turning the nut/bolt but another twisting the socket off sideways. The socket will not stay on the nut/bolt if you use the tool that way with a 6" extension. Must be used two-handed, or one must apply a correction one-handed to keep the extension in line with the bolt. This correction in how one applies force to the wrench removes lateral forces at the ratchet head and will result in accurate torque with a spanner on steering stem nut no matter the angle between. And no matter a spanner or extension this is the correct way to use a ratchet.

As for accuracy, 10, 13, 15, doesn't much matter. Back the nut off to 0 and retorque it will stop in a different place every time. Nasty old static friction. The idea is to get you in the ballpark with a parameter that can be reproduced with some accuracy. GL1800 service manual specifies a torque on the nut but also specifies use of a fish scale on the end of the handlebar for steering resistance. Or in other words wiggle the handlebars and torque until it feels right.
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