Which steering stem wrench is this? - Page 3 - Yamaha FJR Forum : Yamaha FJR Owners Forums
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post #21 of 69 (permalink) Old 02-27-2018, 12:55 AM
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post #22 of 69 (permalink) Old 02-27-2018, 07:18 AM
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why not get the socket and be done with it ?
the socket is super easy to use, don't need much clearance to use.

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post #23 of 69 (permalink) Old 02-27-2018, 08:46 AM Thread Starter
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why not get the socket and be done with it ?
the socket is super easy to use, don't need much clearance to use.
Because the socket is $44 and the socket is $20, you can call me cheap but I've dropped 15K on my FJR this year and I'm looking for deals.
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post #24 of 69 (permalink) Old 02-28-2018, 10:41 AM
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My thoughts were that if the distance to the center is different, it would effect torque values because the leverage has changed.
Believe it or not, no. The spanner adapter and socket produce the same torque for the same readings on torque wrench. The leverage does not change.

The point the wrench attaches to spanner is a pivot, no matter the rotation/flex is imperceptible. As a pivot the spanner does not alter the leverage length.

A couple is a pair of equal forces a distance apart which produces a moment, or torque.

Google "moments couples statics" for tutorials. The basic principle being misunderstood here is how a moment will slide along a beam without a compensating fudge factor. You will see moments on a beam are simply added up irrespective of where the moment is applied.

Yamaha did not specify different torque on the spanner vs socket because there isn't any difference. The CNC Machines link is pretty but dead wrong.

Lets put it another way: At the point the torque wrench attaches to the spanner a torque is applied, not a lateral force at the end of a lever but a torque, a twist.
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post #25 of 69 (permalink) Old 02-28-2018, 12:13 PM
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On a barely related note, when I had my risers installed last year (yes, I didn't want to mess w/ what is probably a relatively easy job if you have the right tools (which I don't, unfortunately)), my stem bolt that was horizontally straight along the bottom was retightened so that it now a little off horizontal, and is driving my semi-OCD tendencies a bit crazy. Not sure if it's a tightened a little more or a little less than before, but I sure wish it was straight again.

Anyway, that's my Wed. a.m. first-world rant for the day.

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post #26 of 69 (permalink) Old 02-28-2018, 12:59 PM
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On a barely related note, when I had my risers installed last year (yes, I didn't want to mess w/ what is probably a relatively easy job if you have the right tools (which I don't, unfortunately)), my stem bolt that was horizontally straight along the bottom was retightened so that it now a little off horizontal, and is driving my semi-OCD tendencies a bit crazy. Not sure if it's a tightened a little more or a little less than before, but I sure wish it was straight again.

Anyway, that's my Wed. a.m. first-world rant for the day.
Very thin shim stock can be cut and used as a washer, stacking pieces together if needed, to achieve the alignment you desire.

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post #27 of 69 (permalink) Old 02-28-2018, 01:17 PM
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Very thin shim stock can be cut and used as a washer, stacking pieces together if needed, to achieve the alignment you desire.
It's a little higher on the left side, so I think it was either overtightened just a hair w/ the riser install or the torque was just a tiny bit shy originally. Probaby just need to tweak the bolt a bit (if I had the torque wrench and socket...might have the service tech check it at next service); the difference between original horizontal and new slightly-askew can't be much at all. But your idea isn't bad, though, and will keep it in mind...thanks.

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post #28 of 69 (permalink) Old 02-28-2018, 01:40 PM
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Believe it or not, no. The CNC Machines link is pretty but dead wrong.
What makes you think the site is wrong? I did not verify the numbers for all cases as it gave what I was loosely expecting. Do you think my formula is incorrect? This is in context to this very specific application.

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post #29 of 69 (permalink) Old 02-28-2018, 06:42 PM
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What makes you think the site is wrong? I did not verify the numbers for all cases as it gave what I was loosely expecting. Do you think my formula is incorrect? This is in context to this very specific application.
My BSE from Department of Mechanical Engineering says it is wrong. There is no formula because there is no correction. The point of application of moments/couples on a beam make no difference. There is no lever arm because the head of the torque wrench is a pivot.

A couple is a pair of equal but opposite forces a distant apart, “torque”. M = F x D

Now consider a beam with two couples applied anywhere you wish. Now calculate the sum of forces times distance from any point on the beam (an end is usually easiest.) Break the couples into two component forces, let the forces contributing clockwise rotation positive, counterclockwise negative.

Now move one of the couples and repeat. The answer will be the same. It does not matter where the couples are applied. It does not matter how long the beam.

Another way saying same thing:
If the distance between the two forces of a couple is D, and one is on the beam at d1, the other at d2, then D = d1 - d2.

Sum of the forces about the end is
M = +F x d1 + -F x d2
M = F( d1 - d2 )
M = FD

... right back where we started, the distance from origin cancels out.

The error commonly propagated wrongly assumes the torque wrench measures force at handle times lever arm to the nut. The spanner extension is not part of the lever.

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post #30 of 69 (permalink) Old 03-01-2018, 11:31 AM
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I agree with with what you've said there in general, but only when the torque wrench is kept at 90° to the spanner.

Take the case of spanner of length E = 3" and torque wrench L = 12" set to 100 ft-lb; the angle A = 0° such that the torque wrench is parallel and extends in the direction of the spanner, and apply 99.9 pounds of force. What torque will the nut experience? I bet it will be something like 125 ft-lb. The pivot is not a pivot until the torque wrench "breaks" so I do not think it needs to be considered until that point. This is a very old and well proven torque wrench extension.

If the angle is anything else, you find the length E', which is the leg of the triangle that is parallel to the torque wrench, and do the same sort of calculation that you've presented. See the image.
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Last edited by R!der; 03-01-2018 at 11:38 AM.
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