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Group Ride Opinions

5K views 31 replies 20 participants last post by  tbonesullivan 
#1 ·
Had a conversation with a coworker tonight...


After a very close call with a city bus tonight. I was turning left at an intersection on a left turn arrow onto a single lane. Bus was on my right on exit ramp turning right onto same single lane. I had right way, he had yield sign. I was turning from a stopped position but wasn't wasting any time. I saw the bus coming but had no reason to suspect he wasn't going to yield. As events transpired, it became apparent he wasn't slowing enough and I had no chance of stopping or an out except to accelerate hard while healed over. It was a split second decision (I was in bottom end of second gear). As I accelerated, it was so close that bus came within 3feet of the back of my bike....had I had ANY less acceleration, the bus would have tapped me. I have to assume that he did not see me...


So in discussing this , my friend, a relatively (smug) new Cruiser rider proceeds to say....That is why I only ride in group rides, as you are a lot more visible, AND always use a headlight strobe if riding alone.
Having discussed issues with him before, I did not have time or inclination to get into this as I was still a little wired from the close call.


In my mind, and from all the things I have seen in years of riding, the most dangerous scenario's I have seen originated in group rides, especially with strangers. On group ride, which I rarely do(meaning several bikes in parade so to speak), if I am not in the first couple of bikes or the last couple, I would just as soon be riding alone.


Not talking about riding with buddies , who you know what to expect and, ride in a fashion where each rider has ALL of his lane if needed and not to worry about getting rearended by tailgating.


So after this long winded story..What say you?


Safer in group rides or not??
 
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#2 ·
Your friend is dangerously ill informed and has probably joined a group of riders that are teaching and reinforcing such silly beliefs. Ask him his opinion of ape hangers as an enhancement good for controlling the bike at high speed. Save him if you can.
 
#3 ·
Totally depends on the riders. Firstly, I never do the "group" rides like your co-worker is likely talking about. That being a dozen or more riders of unknown skill level.

I do ride about 100 miles (once per year) with a group of 20 of so skilled riders. These are touring guys with many miles under their belts. We usually do this after 5 days of touring around either alone or in small groups. So, these are riders I trust. Never an issue.

But I (and most guys I know) avoid "group" rides of more than 3 or 4 riders because they know it is not as safe.

I don't think large group rides is ever as safe as being alone or in a small pack, skilled riders or not.

But, being with great riders that you know and trust is a far cry safer that those organized runs of 20 plus weekend warriors.
 
#4 ·
No group rides for me, or any type of riding where riders are side by side, two in a lane at speed. And even when I'm riding with my longtime trusted riding friends we don't ride side by side anymore. Things happen too quickly and I like having the lane next to me vacant so we always ride staggered. There has been a few motorcycle accidents around here that were bike on bike from guys riding side by side.
 
#5 ·
I stay away from organized group rides as there are too many unknown variables and I never go on any "poker" style runs because 90% of the time the stops are at bars. I will ride in small groups with friends that I trust but most of the time it's me and the wife out solo.
 
#6 ·
Insanity in individuals is rare, in groups it is the rule.

If your friend's belief in visibility were correct no one would pull out in front of large trucks and trains.

The problem with group riding is everyone wants to keep the group together and that leaves less room for errors in judgement and maneuverability. Every year there are examples of groups that crash together, often with several dying.

Over the years I have learned to avoid many that I still call friends but their irrational thinking and judgments either inconvenienced me or put me in danger. I think all of us have done so. And never expect any group to save you, you are always the key actor in your life.
 
#7 ·
Organized group rides like Little Joe's friend is likely talking about are, to me, just frustrating. Trying to keep the proper distancing is sort of like riding in a parade -- and almost as interesting. Even if it were safer, which is arguable, I won't do it.

I have gone on a couple of NoMoSno rides and a Hoon ride with groups that were a hoot! But they could almost be called an every-man-for-himself ride. That doesn't mean nobody was concerned or watched out for anyone else, but we kept enough distance between us that we could make our own decisions. If anyone does get too close for comfort, I'm quite willing to move right and wave them by.

Generally speaking, though, I ride with a small local group where we're all about the same skill level. Usually we'll have four or less riders, and we'll be spread out over a quarter mile. Sometimes when I'm leading, I can't even see the last bike. But I can see the one behind me, and he can see the one behind him, and that one can see the one behind him ...... With this arrangement, the slowest rider in the group, even if he's running last, can regulate the pace somewhat.

I think if someone told me they would only ride in group rides I'd just have to ask if they trailer to the meeting point. But, then, I have a weird sense of humor like that ;)
 
#8 ·
Group rides tend to be a little higher risk, on average, than solo or pairs, in my experience. I do have a Kisan headlight modulator. I use it much as a would a horn. It doesn't stay on all the time, but it does get turned on when I have side traffic or turning traffic potentially in my path. Or anytime I'm on secondary roads and not behind someone. I also have an admore large lightbar on the tail of the bike. Even though statistically, a small percentage of accidents occur where the bike is struck from behind, with as much time and as many miles as I spend riding, I need to manage that risk too.
 
#9 ·
Not for me. The problem with group rides is the "lock-step" mentality. The riders are usually staggered or in a side-by-side formation and they aren't skilled enough for that kind of formation riding. Many MSF grads I've ridden with are also terrible about leaving enough space between riders - even in the twisties. Drives me frgn' nuts!
 
#10 ·
I don't do group rides. I think a group larger than three is too large. In a group larger than three, there are always at least two who want to go faster or slower than you, leave at the crack of dawn or dwaddle until mid-morning, or stop everywhere to sightsee and take pictures or push on and stop only for gas and restrooms.

Me? I always think I am the one slowing the group down.
 
#11 ·
I ride with my wife a great deal of the time. We tend to stay pretty far apart except when in an urban environment with traffic lights and stop signs. It is not uncommon for us to be a half mile or more apart. We do occassionally ride with one or two other people. I make it clear to fellow riders that I own the entire lane to my front and rear, and if you think we need to ride in a staggered formation (or formation of any kind), then you are too close. Again, if we are in the urban environment described above, then a staggered formation might be appropriate, but we seldom find ourselves in an urban environment. Group ride to me means that we are all headed to the same place; it does not mean we are riding together.

I cringe when I see riders in a group riding in a tight formation... one bike's front wheel nearly beside the other's rear wheel. No one has the reactions need to avoid a collision when responding to a situation requiring emergency braking and evasive maneuvering when riding that close. A year ago there was an accident near my old home in Alaska. Four people (two married couples) on four Harleys riding in a tight staggered formation. A car made a left turn in front of the group. All four riders hit the car and/or the riders in front of them. Two killed, one critically injured (I do not know if he recovered), and one injured but stable. There is no excuse for not being able to avoid impacting the rider in front of you during an accident, let alone plowing into a bike that was three ahead of you.
 
#14 ·
A year ago there was an accident near my old home in Alaska. Four people (two married couples) on four Harleys riding in a tight staggered formation. . . .
I heard about that. I remember thinking, "No excuse."
 
#12 ·
Maybe there are different definitions to the word staggered. First of all, no side by side. I will not do it. So, whenever I ride with anybody, including those that I know, but especially those that I don't know, I explain what I expect from the other riders and a staggered formation. To me it means plenty of room to the bike in front of you and, if that bike is on the left , then you are on the right, but only a slower speeds. Any curves or faster speeds, single file only and with plenty of room, which at that point means just in sight. A few times I have stopped and let the other riders know they were too close. If they don't back off, I go somewhere else. Now, when I ride with one of my long time riding friends and my kids, the 4 people I ride with the most, this type of riding has become 2nd nature.
 
#13 ·
Last weekend I went on a group ride with 3 other riders that I have never ridden with before. They are older guys with a lot of riding experience. Before we set out there was a briefing.
As new guy I ran tail gunner. Also we wide staggered so that each rider has the whole width of his lane to work with if needed. We also discussed travel speed and that if a car or truck comes up on us and wants to travel faster than we are that myself and no 3 rider will slow down and close rank (still staggered) to give the vehicle only 2 bikes to pass instead of 4 answer the leaders will speed up a bit to give separation from riders 3 and 4 to make overtaking safer for us and the vehicle.
When we get into the twisted each rider can ride at their own pace so that if someone isn't comfortable dragging pegs they won't over ride their abilities. Then on the straight stretches we form up again. Riding through towns we stay close but staggered.
I really enjoyed the ride but I do like travelling solo.

Sent from my SM-N920W8 using Tapatalk
 
#15 ·
As you'all {y'all to us southerners} have heard me mention, I ride occasionally with a group called Carolina Old Farts Sport Touring Association. They mostly ride out of Charlotte, and Morganton, and Lenoir NC. They are all quite experienced riders and all faster than me in the twisty stuff, especially really fast sweepers, as my pucker factor kicks in around 80 and I just can't go any faster even if the limited arc of a curve dictates higher speeds.

No one expects anyone to "keep up" and the group waits at the end of each "run" for me, or others, to catch up, before traveling to the next breathtaking series of twisties, or sweepers.

We mostly keep to the 2 second rule or the, "I can just see his taillight" rule, though nothing is ever said. During these maneuvers we often "bunch up" when encountering cagers, or Harleys. I find the "bunching up" times the most dangerous, though anyone riding with us, that was not an experienced rider, would consider the whole scenario unnerving.

That said, we do maintain a fairly tight, "staggered", formation while traveling between the good sections. Down normal highways, with cagers, the group expands and contracts like an accordian, in a staggered formation. As we get up to higher speeds, on highways, and then enter slower more congested areas.

I also ride with the Patriot Guard, who, when escorting deceased veterans from the church to the cemetery in a staggered formation of usually 10-30 bikes, {though there are many "trikes" and "spyders" who make "staggering" impossible}, are often a little too close for my personal comfort.

The really scary part, for me, is when the LEO's who are holding up traffic for us, race past us to get to the next intersection, often busting down narrow two lane roads in the "other" lane, assuming that everyone will make way for them.

When we have the "privilege" of having LEO's escort us I make sure I position myself so I am riding on the right side of my lane, so my aforementioned "pucker factor", is not stretched to the limit, when these blessed public servants blast past us at 100 mph on the 'wrong' side of the road. LOL
 
#16 ·
I group ride and club ride!! I do not know what idiots people are riding with but yes get the heck out of any group that is unsafe. Been riding with the same group almost every Sunday for years and let me tell you I would not have it any other way. Great group from 6 riders to 15 riders all depends but, we just ride not much structure no order just ride and ride safe. Some are in our club " Antique Motorcycle club of San Diego" and we club ride around 8 times a year "Saturdays" plus trips. There is no better experience than to ride with a group of people who are like family so go ahead and ride alone but for me I ride with my group.
 
#21 ·
All y'all mostly have a problem when the ride is a bit quicker and some try to keep up instead of riding their ride..... and not waving the faster guys past to make a more natural order..... not spacing out a bit, etc. Slower group rides aren't a problem, but a really slow leader can be a real PITA when he don't wanna go the speed limit or a touch more.

At group events, some of us have learned to just go off on our own, three or four bikes and it just works better that way.
 
#27 ·
I am of the 3 bikes is enough group. Understanding that all the lane will be used when/if necessary without having the added time of having to check who's in it that shouldn't be.
5 is max if I know the riders and what to expect/or not.


Formation rides make me really nervous , kinda like driving in the fog!!
 
#28 ·
I am of the 3 bikes is enough group. Understanding that all the lane will be used when/if necessary without having the added time of having to check who's in it that shouldn't be.
5 is max if I know the riders and what to expect/or not.

Formation rides make me really nervous , kinda like driving in the fog, in a moose sanctuary!!!!
>:)
 
#29 ·
Little Joe,

I hope you don't take this in a derogatory way, but after reading your account, you have to face the fact that you were partially responsible for the event.

"I saw the bus coming but had no reason to suspect he wasn't going to yield." - a street survival no-no.
Assuming someone is going to do/not do something can lead to accidents no matter the vehicle you operate.
"I have to assume that he did not see me..." Acting on this earlier in the scenario would have avoided it completely.
Just because you have the right-of-way, you do not have to take it until you know for sure it is safe.

An unknown skill level driver, on a schedule, driving a routine route, operating a multi-ton vehicle = scary.
That bus driver likely makes that turn at that intersection a dozen or more times a day. It is a perfect scenario for inattentive driving.

Even the thing people say about making eye contact is dubious at best. Just because they are looking at you, doesn't mean they see you. Flashing lights, hi-vis colors all good things to use, but no guarantee it will work.

Sadly, the bus driver was probably cussing you for pulling in front of them. Even though they were in the wrong.

As far as your friend's comment, if you were in a group, and multiple bikes had followed you, some or all of you would have been run over. Either by the bus, or fellow riders trying to avoid it.

Even fish in schools get eaten. Being in a group is no guarantee to no accidents.

I'm glad you escaped uninjured, and hope this experience will help you avoid an accident in the future. Ride like everyone is out to kill you.
 
#30 ·
Started riding in 1966, or thereabouts. The number one absolute that I learned is if you plan on sight seeing on a motorcycle you better be the passenger or park it while looking around. The number two absolute is EVERYONE out there is trying to kill you. If your head isn't in the game, chances are someone will put in a box for you. Riding in groups where there is a mix of riding skills, attitudes, and types of bikes all increase the odds of having an accident. Riding with smaller groups, my max is about four or five, makes the odds more manageable. Choosing the people you will ride with can just about remove most risk factors and make a ride very enjoyable. Something most riders "should" think about when partaking in our sport is if you want have fun and be safe you need to think about risk management. That includes group rides.
 
#31 ·
Neal C


No offence taken. I was absolutely wrong to have proceeded ........but I would have had to stop in middle of a large multiple lane intersection.
The ramp is quite short that dumps the bus into a one lane where there should be two. I two have made this turn many 100's of times and always had the buses yield as necessary.


It was kind of both of us arriving at the same time and same place and by the time I realized he wasn't slowing enough I had no choice but to really get on it and thankful it didn't end worse.


I know I should have not put myself in that situation and am a very careful rider in most all situations and was not impressed with myself having rode into that situation.
Everyone gets a reality check situation even if its years apart, and a renewed diligence to never be complacent.
 
#32 ·
So much goes into that type of statement. Who is in the group is the BIG one. Where you are riding is another. The leader also plays a part.

I generally go on 2-6 group rides a month during the summer and fall seasons. It's got to be somewhere I want to go. I also prefer to ride "sweep" at the back, so I don't have idiots running into me. Also gives me more latitude as often the group ends up stretching and contracting all the time, meaning more throttle and clutch work than I would normally like if I am INSIDE the group.

Groups definitely are easier to see, as there are more of you. I also am one who does not hold by headlight modulators/flashers/etc. They can be so distracting that it prevents people from seeing things like your TURN SIGNAL.

I will say that I see many more accidents group riding than solo riding, but it seems many more fatal accidents happen solo riding.
 
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